Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!mcgill-vision!quiche!utility From: utility@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Ronald BODKIN) Newsgroups: alt.activism Subject: Re: Akwesasne Notes -- Basic Call to Consciousness 1977 Message-ID: <1989@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca> Date: 16 Jan 90 17:16:29 GMT References: <3096@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU> <1257@milton.acs.washington.edu> <503@smcnet.UUCP> <4602@druwy.ATT.COM> <1963@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca> Reply-To: utility@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Ronald BODKIN) Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada Lines: 28 In article nelson@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >And greed has also produced all of the world's misery. I don't agree at all. "Duty" based ethics have been used to both directly and indirectly make people suffer. Directly as in the instance of a Roman Catholic church making people act against their own interests out of a sense of duty (see the middle ages -- what great progress) and indeed, the fact remains that people who TRY to help others out usually fail miserably. See the current brilliant state of welfare etc., or better yet, try out any socialist experiment (say Britain before Thatcher got people greedy again). I agree that GREED has a pejorateive sound to it -- but ultimately self-interest is the only rational thing to pursue, and unless you believe in spirits etc., then happiness is the thing you should identify therewith. As such, greed is essentially seeking out your own good, and that has produced much more benefit that the stagnation of duty -- in the end the second morality crushes self-esteem and I believe spiritual needs of humanity can be identified with intellectual needs. The "spirit" is just the human mind, and people DO need to think and achieve, there are some things which are of religious-like significance to rational people. As for the reason for this belief, I don't see any evidence for supernatural beings, they contradict my general impression about an orderly universe where man is capable of achievement and any particular system I've bothered to look at has been riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies. How can Christians go on believing when Christ says three times in their own bible that he is going to have the 2nd coming within the life-time of those present? Answer: no one CARES if its true, they are just trying to fill some psychological need. I don't have that need myself -- I would humbly submit I've outgrown it. Ron