Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!cica!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!image.soe.clarkson.edu!news From: nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) Newsgroups: alt.activism Subject: Re: Akwesasne Notes -- Basic Call to Consciousness 1977 Message-ID: Date: 19 Jan 90 03:44:39 GMT References: <3096@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU> <1257@milton.acs.washington.edu> <503@smcnet.UUCP> <4602@druwy.ATT.COM> <1963@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca> <1989@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca> Sender: news@sun.soe.clarkson.edu Reply-To: nelson@clutx.clarkson.edu Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam NY Lines: 31 In-reply-to: utility@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca's message of 16 Jan 90 17:16:29 GMT In article <1989@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca> utility@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Ronald BODKIN) writes: In article nelson@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >And greed has also produced all of the world's misery. I don't agree at all. I am just as correct as you were when you said that greed has produced all of the world's progress. "Duty" based ethics have been used to both directly and indirectly make people suffer. Directly as in the instance of a Roman Catholic church making people act against their own interests out of a sense of duty (see the middle ages -- what great progress) and indeed, the fact remains that people who TRY to help others out usually fail miserably. All too often, altruistic people fail in their goals. That is because their goals are *their* goals, not the goals of the people being "helped". If I ask someone "How can I help you?", and I listen to them, and help them do what they want to do, how can I possibly "fail miserably?" The problem that I have with greed is simply this: Greed is self-interest at the expense of others. If you saw a ten dollar bill lying on the sidewalk, would you pick it up? A greedy person would pick it up. A self-interested person would leave it there, realizing that it doesn't belong to them, that someone will be looking for it, and sooner or later they'll lose something that they will want someone else to leave there. -- --russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu]) Russ.Nelson@$315.268.6667 Violence never solves problems, it just changes them into more subtle problems