Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!drutx!druwy!jaf From: jaf@druwy.ATT.COM (John A. Frieman) Newsgroups: alt.activism Subject: Re: Akwesasne Notes -- Basic Call to Consciousness 1977 Summary: No rose colored glasses, only history. Sorry Mike, you missed it. Message-ID: <4617@druwy.ATT.COM> Date: 18 Jan 90 17:31:53 GMT References: <4602@druwy.ATT.COM> <3655@cbnewsl.ATT.COM> Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO Lines: 87 In article <3655@cbnewsl.ATT.COM>, rubin@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (michael.rubin) writes: > In article <4602@druwy.ATT.COM> jaf@druwy.ATT.COM (John A. Frieman) writes: > > > >When greed was exhibited by Native person it was discouraged. There is the > >story of a man who was a skilled hunter. One day as he was butchering a > >deer he a killed two old people came to receive there share, as was > >customary. The hunter kept his eyes down on the deer and refused to > >acknowledge them. From that day he was known as "He Who Cuts Meat With His > >Head Down." Even after the hunter reformed his ways the name stuck for > >many years. > > There are certainly advantages to a socioeconomic system like the Native > Americans had, where a person's objective is to maximize his standing in > the community rather than the amount of his private property. Quite > simply, there are more reasons to be nice to your neighbor and fewer > reasons to be nasty to him. > > Unfortunately, there are some basic problems that make such a society > unimplementable under conditions that exist in the modern world. I agree, but maybe we can work to change the conditions which foster greed and poverty. Native people realized the interdependency of all life, not only human. Concern for others was not solely based on pressure from the society, it was a recognition of the interdependence of all life. > - It does not work in a community too large for everybody to know each > other (a few hundred), or where people can freely move to other places. > The sanction of bad reputation given to the hunter in John's story is > meaningless if he interacts with people who don't know him personally. The reputations of people amoung the Haudenosaunee traveled widely through an extensive trade network. The influence of the Six Nations was felt from Canada to the Carolinas and west to the Mississippi. The community was in reality quite large. > - Life in small villages may be peaceful much of the time, but if someone > powerful has a grudge against you, it is hard to leave. Reputations are > easier to destroy maliciously than physical property. This may be true in Western society, but it is harder to do in a clan based society with strong family bonds. Gaining status by attacking another would not work in such a society, it would backfire. Status is gained by ones own works. Balance is the key. A great orator of the Six Nations was elected a chief (a title of honor, not power) for his skill with the spoken word, but he was never elected to the council because his powers of oration were deemed sufficient power for one person. BTW The elections I mention above were by the Clan Mothers of the tribe. The Haudenosaunee are a matralineal society where power is shared amoung all of the people. > - Since it does not encourage material progress, useful things like indoor > plumbing, eyeglasses, and surgery with anesthesia do not get invented. But many good things do come of it: 1 - The Constitution of the United States is, in part, based on the Great Law of the Haudenosaunee. See "The Forgotten Founders", its currently in print. 2 - Sixty percent of the varieties of food consumed in the world were domesticated by Native People. 3 - Religeous tolerence was practiced. This was certainly not taught by the Puritans, although it was practiced by the Dutch. > BTW, from what I've read, Native Americans (at least in the Southeast) > at the time of first Spanish contact had far from a classless society; > they had kings, aristocrats and armies sponging off the common guy too, > just on a smaller scale than in Europe. While the Spaniards moved on > to looting the richer Incas, their smallpox and influenza wiped out half > the population of North America - probably hitting hardest the bigger, > more crowded villages containing the kings and aristocrats. > The nations that formed AFTER this first disruption are the ones that > John is writing about. Not quite, the League of the Six Nations (Haudenosaunee) was formed circa 1390. This is well before the European invasion. Spanish in New York State? The English and French introduced smallpox in the northern areas. Class refers to a fixed position in a society based on birth. ie: a noble title. As I pointed out above "chief" is a title of honor not power or birth right. It is given an can be taken away if not lived every day. > --Mike Rubin (wearing my armchair anthropologist's flame-proof hat) I will try to do my part by living the Great Peace. John A. Frieman Nyah-weh ska-noh, gayah-da-sey I thank thee to know that thou art strong, friend The traditional Seneca greeting. (If you are strong, you have no reason to fear me, know that you are strong)