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From: pa1412@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (pa1412)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.flame
Subject: Re: LIGHT OF THE FIRE IS THE SUN....PLATO
Message-ID: <6137@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>
Date: 16 Jan 90 21:20:52 GMT
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In article <125409@puff.UUCP> kschnitz@puff.UUCP (Kevin Schnitzius) writes:
>
>Without the use of dangerous recreational drugs, I, with my "ordinary
>human mind," can't imagine these other so-called realities at the same time. 

You seem to indicate the only valid use of the mind is to
deduce meta-fact upon meta-fact via Aristotelian Logic. You discount
any alternative sources of 'knowledge, i.e.  some native american
groups value alternative methods of obtaining 'knowledge' by use
of 'drugs'.

In a fundamental sense what more than knowing how to obtain food,
shelter, and procreate is required for survival of the race?
What makes the deductive process used by the western world superior?
Because we sent a man TO the moon rather than drew it down
spiritually? It is true that the 'unexamined' life is of less value
to some people. But a modern question is "what are the tools for
examination?". God at one time was chaotic, ruled by caprice, then
the diety became orderly(for the west) and rational, now maybe the
omnipotent one is becoming chaotic again.

>
>You putz, he is talking about critical thinking and not pseudo-meditational
>spiritual crapola.  "An unexamined life is not worth living..."
>

Yes, well some of us did not have the benefit of being there as you
were. I cann't really say tha Plato had absolutely no religious
beliefs. But he does advocate examining whatever believes one has
to assure oneself of the validity of one's beliefs. Clearly you
have examined the rationalism that you espouse and have found it to
be the only valid way of thinking for you.

Of course if it was obvious to one and all what Plato was saying we
would not have 2500 years of different schools of though that trace
their origins to Plato. I do not know what Plato's religious beliefs
were. And I don't think anyone has any more than a stack of
suppositions. Clearly he advocated that whatever your belief system
was that it should be examined. The question that might be directed
to you is "Is the rationalistic system developed in the west the
only valid path to knowledge of the universe?". I think not.

>
>Cynicism,

There is a difference between a Cynic and an Assassin. A cynic is a
little dog who yips at the heals of the 'learned'. An assassin wishes
to distroy the target. You have done neither. The charge of mental
imbalance does not lessen the impact of the statements. If you have
ever encountered a 'schizo' you would've been impressed by some of
the most direct and true statements about society and even your self
personally. (in some cases) The main problem of these people is not
their 'view' of the world but how they deal with it on a day to day
basis. The Christians have the view that the world is being torn to
shreds by the forces of EVIL. That is a fairly psychotic statement
i.e. the only reason for this forces is the Christian's belief,
there is no externally available device that measures EVIL (unless
your a Scientologist). And look at the X-ian's response to this evil
persecution, self-abuse, and inordinate rituals of cleansing.
Does this suggest a rational mind at work. But we live with these
people and put up with their outburst. Some of us, me in particular,
examine what they have to say. I, however, cann't say I believe much
of what they say is right for me.
--
John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
pa1412@iugrad2.ucsd.edu