Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jb3o+ From: jb3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Allen Boone) Newsgroups: alt.individualism Subject: Re: Phil Ronzone's stereo Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 90 09:01:23 GMT References: <8062@unix.SRI.COM> Distribution: usa Organization: Class of '92, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 48 In-Reply-To: <8062@unix.SRI.COM> ellis@chips.sri.com (Michael Ellis) writes: > > Jon Allen Boone >> Phil Ronone > > >> Of course, this totally justifies what the NAZI's did to the Jews. > >> After all, they had enough poeple. What happened was part of the "social > >> contract". > > >Aha! Name calling! What the Nazi's did to the Jews... > > I certainly didn't think Phil was name calling. He was showing > something very wrong with your position: If rights are and > ought to be whatever the majority at any given point decides, then > there is nothing wrong if a majority votes away all rights and > gives total power to a small elite. Something very much like that > happened in Nazi Germany. Certain rights must be absolutely > unvotable-away. That is the important sense in which rights ought > to be more primordial than government itself. > > -michael You're right. That's why i *don't* believe in democracy. The more people involved, the more likely they are to fuck it up. Rights are not absolutes, in my position. As Crowley put it: Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay. (AL.I.42-3.) Love is the law, love under will. - (AL.I.57.) Democracy is inherrently subject to this kind of erosion of our "basic" rights. It is happening every day here in the Land Of The Free and the Home Of The Brave (tm). Government out to be radically scaled back and (in some areas) done away with altogether. But, if you're going to support somethings, then you should support them wholeheartedly. For an interesting example of how democracy can get fucked up, try playing a little game that Douglas Hoffsteader describes in Metamagical Themas. It can go a long way toward showing you how bad off you could be in America today, especially if you play with the kind of people who are in favor of increased erosion of rights. good luck, iain