Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!rhg2
From: rhg2@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Rich  Graham)
Newsgroups: alt.individualism
Subject: Re: Phil Ronzone's stereo
Message-ID: <21697@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 90 15:14:38 GMT
References: <2310@odin.SGI.COM> <12569@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <2356@odin.SGI.COM> <1990Jan13.090428.25775@agate.berkeley.edu> <2818@odin.SGI.COM> <21643@unix.cis.pitt.edu> <2904@odin.SGI.COM>
Reply-To: rhg2@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Rich  Graham)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh, Comp & Info Services
Lines: 44

In article <2904@odin.SGI.COM> pkr@maddog.sgi.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>I own all my property. There are three kinds:
>
>p0 = my own life
>p1 = my ideas and thoughts (i.e., Einstein owns E=MC**2)
>p2 = my tangible derivatives (farm the ground, I own the
>     corn)
>
>In many cases of p2, ownership is immediately transferred
>upon production via prior agreement as per most blue and
>white collar jobs.

(I'm willing to concede on any intangibles, I'm only referring to
physical property.)

This is just a summary of your rules concerning ownership.  

Maybe you didn't understand my question, so I'll try to rephrase it.  As
far as I can see, given the existence of people and objects, the people
are bound to invent some system of social conventions concerning their
behavior with respect to those objects.  One example of this is the
"Phil Rozone Property System" which naturally is roughly the same as the
system that everyone else in western culture observes.

Reading your articles, though, gives me the impression that you believe
that "ownership" is some kind of basic quantity that trascends culture,
government, and social and cultural convention.  You speak as if "I own
x" is an absolute, and is in accordance with some universal law.

Again, as far as I can see, the statement "I own these shoes" means
"these shoes meet the qualifications set down by my society and myself
under our system of ownership".  If the statement has a more significant
meaning, I'd like to know what it is.

Also, based on what you've said about ownership so far, I'd expect that
you'd have trouble with the idea that anyone around you owns anything,
since it all comes from natural resoures that were stolen from their
rightful owners at one point or another.  If you buy from a thief, do
you own it or not?  Indirectly, practically everything you and I own 
has come to us from some theif.
-- 
Richard H. Graham
University of Pittsburgh - CIS
rhg2@unix.cis.pitt.edu