Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!a.gp.cs.cmu.edu!koopman
From: koopman@a.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Philip Koopman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Forth
Message-ID: <7573@pt.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 15 Jan 90 11:46:03 GMT
References: <6025@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> <1990Jan14.203752.22131@tree.uucp>
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
Lines: 37

In article <1990Jan14.203752.22131@tree.uucp>, stever@tree.uucp (Steve Rudek) writes:
> LISP is at least as good for language building (probably better).  Of
> course, all the implementations I've heard of are too slow or run only on
> expensive hardware.  Assuming that LISP's speed problem is inescapably
> endemic to the language, then Forth has the opportunity to monopolize the
> market as a language for writing languages which are actually USABLE.

Scheme (a LISP variant) is no longer slow!  Scheme uses compile-time
analysis to derive typing information, so run-time tag checking is
not needed in most cases.  Similarly, it does strictness
analysis to reduce the cost of closure building.  Finally, modern
copying-semispace garbage collection algorithms are *much* cheaper
than the old clunkers that used to be around.  Given the fact that 
Forth has an interpretive overhead of about 50% or so on a modern
non-stack architecture, Scheme can actually be faster than Forth.
Scheme is much bigger than Forth, but who cares on a Sun 3 or Vax?
The language implementation group I work with at CMU uses Scheme for
most of their work, and I honestly can't say that they would be any better
off using Forth.

> I propose that the Forth community develop "portable libraries"
> which can be easily retrieved from Fig, Forth BBSes and network
> archive servers. 

Sounds like the beginnings of a good idea.  You'll find that this
is a lot more work than it appears at the onset, but worth doing.

Don't forget that establishing technical excellence in
Forth is half the problem -- the other half is marketing.
Marketing gets people in the door, technical excellence keeps
them there.

  Phil Koopman                koopman@greyhound.ece.cmu.edu   Arpanet
  2525A Wexford Run Rd.
  Wexford, PA  15090
Senior Scientist at Harris Semiconductor.
I don't speak for them, and they don't speak for me.