Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!rex!ames!saturn!xanthian
From: xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Forth
Message-ID: <10492@saturn.ADS.COM>
Date: 18 Jan 90 08:24:33 GMT
References: <6025@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mt. View, CA (415) 960-7300
Lines: 46


(I just had to use such an open subject line for this follow up!)

Folks puzzling over "where did all the FIG members go" and "why isn't FORTH
more successful among programming languages" are invited to read "Positive
Feedbacks in the Economy" in the Feb90 Scientific American.  It gives a
pretty sobering view of how hard it is for the laggard in a high technology
race to even stay in the race, much less pull even or win, and explains
why.  Winning seems to have little to do with merit!

To the remark that "windowing, graphics, etc. are not appropriate for a
FORTH standard", I can't argue against such an attitude directly, but I can
say that I would be unwilling to start a graphics project on any
workstation platform after 1992 using any language that did not include a
binding to X Windows.  My reason?  Almost every job ad in misc.jobs.offered
that mentions graphics _requires_ X Windows experience.  I blinked, and I'm
obsolete!  ;-)  Again, take a look at the above article to see why it is
long too late to avoid the X juggernaut.

To the passing mention of standards documents' cost.  Yes, since the
corporate sponsors of ANSI have tightened the purse strings, a large part
of ANSI's budget is derived from selling paper standards documents at about
five times the price most potential purchasers are willing to pay.  A
direct effect is that the standards are slow to be adopted, and that the
"big folks" get a big head start on using them.  Since these prices also
apply to the (photocopied) draft standards, a secondary effect is that the
standards are reviewed by only a narrow audience, focused around the "big
players" capable of funding standards committee participation (big bucks -
perhaps $20K per year by now), while the wider community is stuck with
whatever they get at the end of the process, with little opportunity to
participate in or comment upon the creation of the standard.

(I've said this before in many forums of USENet.  I wanted, while
unemployed, to use some of my copious free time to comment upon a draft
ANSI standard where I had 25 years experience to bring to bear.  I was told
it would cost me $70 for a bad photocopy of a throw-away document.  I used
the time instead fomenting flame wars on the net!  Human resources - use
them or lose them, America!)

--
Again, my opinions, not the account furnishers'.

xanthian@well.sf.ca.us  xanthian@ads.com (Kent Paul Dolan)
Kent, the (bionic) man from xanth, now available as a build-a-xanthian
kit at better toy stores near you.  Warning - some parts proven fragile.
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