Xref: utzoo talk.religion.newage:5385 news.groups:16445
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From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,news.groups
Subject: Re: talk.religion.pagan
Message-ID: <9695@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: 16 Jan 90 10:14:39 GMT
References: <130242@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney)
Organization: Eclectic Software, San Francisco
Lines: 56

In article <130174@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@sun.UUCP (William A. Turnbow)
writes:
>>>***    Remember to VOTE YES to talk.religion.pagan (moderated).   ***
>>>***             Send your vote To: olorin@walt.cc.utexas.edu      ***

In article <9659@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes:
>>In a message posted on 12 January 1990, after the conclusion of the voting
>>period.  Obviously this is an individual deeply concerned about the ethics
>>of newsgroup creation and control.

In article <130242@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@sun.UUCP (William A. Turnbow)
writes:
>	Actually Tim, I don't give a poop.
>	I'll keep my .sig file as it is though until I see the vote.  Why are
>you so hostile to letting other people have something they want?  Are you
>so much into controlling other people's lives, wants and desires?

So, Turnbow not only admits that he consciously solicited votes for the
group after the end of the voting period, he says that he will continue
to do so, and that he doesn't give a shit for ethics.  The only rationale
cited is that he wants the new group.

What is most interesting about this message is that Turnbow apparently
knew that the vote collector will continue to accept votes after the
end of the voting period, yet he did not state the collector's excuse
for doing so.  I will let the reader draw his or her own conclusions.

Something is very fishy here, and yes, I do intend the pun to refer to
sci.aquaria.  If anyone sent votes to the collector between 2 Jan and
10 Jan, please post to the net or send mail to me to that effect, and
please mention whether you did or did not receive a confirmation.  In
addition, the collector will please post a vote tally ASAP, with names
of the voters; anyone whose vote was not counted or was counted
incorrectly should post to news.groups or send mail to me.

This mess and sci.aquaria show a basic flaw in the newsgroup creation
process.  The votes are taken by people who have a vested interest in
the outcome of the vote, and who can very easily commit fraud or
otherwise dissemble concerning the results.

Wouldn't it be better if some backbone site set up an automatic vote
receiver/counter/confirmer?  The overhead would probably be a very
small fraction of the cost of being on the backbone in the first place,
there would be no more complaints about how hard collector X was to
reach, and the votes would be in the hands of a supremely disinterested
entity.  The only downside is that someone has to write the software,
but it should all be doable with a fairly simple awk script; if no one
on one of the backbone sites wants to take a few hours, I'll do it.
-- 
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

"The Diabolonian position is new to the London playgoer of today, but not to
 lovers of serious literature.  From Prometheus to the Wagnerian Siegfried,
 some enemy of the gods, unterrified champion of those oppressed by them, has
 always towered among the heroes of the loftiest poetry."
    - Shaw, "On Diabolonian Ethics"