Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: davidbu@tekigm2.men.tek.com (David Buxton) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: what does it take to be saved Message-ID: Date: 18 Jan 90 05:00:43 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or. Lines: 53 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I do believe that death bed conversions can indeed be genuine: * The Thief on the cross. * The parable of the workers who hired, some early, some at noon and some very late in the day; and they all received the same wages. This last Sabbath we had a baptism. The man in question had been living a drunken rebelious life. Was in the hospital for weeks and finally prononced ready to die. His brother had been pleading with him to come to Christ. His liver was about dead with a bilirubin count way above fatal and certain brain damage. His kidneys quit and his amonia level was a couple times higher than fatal and certain brain damage. He did accept Christ and an anointing of oil. Since then he has been a strong witness for God and his recovery, without any signs of brain damage, has been remarkable. I happened to be the one who was asked to assist him getting in and out of the hard to get up to baptistry. He accepted my help, but it was obvious he really did not need any help. I was just there as a precaution. This was a little over a week after the doctors were saying he would soon be dead. I also believe that those who know not the name of Jesus can be saved. There is a passage, for example in Romans, that to me makes this clear. Those who are responsive to the work of the Holy Spirit and keep God's commandments as best they are revealed by the Holy Spirit can indeed be saved. And those who say Jesus Jesus (Lord Lord) but don't do what He would have them to do will not be saved. That text is quite clear to me. "If you Love me keep my Commandments". God knows the heart. I believe that Jesus knew the good thief on the cross was genuinely converted and if he had been delivered from the cross he would have proclaimed Jesus the rest of his life and would have been obedient to God the rest of his life. You and I cannot judge that, but Jesus was able to. A hospital chaplain once said - "I am astounded there are not more death bed conversions". He went on to say that those who have spent a life time cursing God, usually die cursing God. In other words God does not get many cases where He has to sort out whether a last minute conversion is genuine. There are those stories of ships sinking and airplanes about to crash and all the passengers turn to God but then the plane does not crash or the ship sink; and limps back to port. And the passengers are back to living life the way they lived it before the close call. Those who cursed God are back to cursing God just as they had before. What if the ship sank or the plane crashed? Would they all have been saved? I leave that in the hands of God. My bias is that God knows who would have continued to hold His mighty hand and who would have thrown His hand down again as soon as life mellowed out again. Dave