Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!ames!sun-barr!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: credmond@watmath.waterloo.edu (Chris Redmond) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: what does it take to be saved Message-ID: Date: 18 Jan 90 05:03:07 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario Lines: 45 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article palmer@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Grant E. Palmer) writes: a question about whether "repentance" is sufficient for "salvation", even in the case of someone who has led a hideously vicious life for many years. Our wise moderator adds this comment: >As far as I know, all >Christians would agree that a serious conversion is sufficient, no >matter what you had done before, even right at the point of death. >That view goes back quite directly to Jesus. A lot of his teaching, >particularly his parables, calls people to repentance. Take a look >for example at Mat 20, a parable that seems to deal with exactly this >issue. Jesus deals with it in parables. I suspect many Protestants >would tend to answer you in terms of Pauline theology, explaining that >people are saved not because of any good works that they do, but by >their faith in God. However at that point we are getting into more >controversial territory. But as far as I know even those who are >uncomfortable with "salvation by faith alone" would still agree that >deathbed repentance is sufficient -- so long as it is real repentance, >i.e. it would hold even if the person miraculously recovered. It might be useful to add that "real repentance" -- in human eyes and, I am inclined to think, in God's eyes -- would be likely characterized by two things: -- a sincere effort to live a good life in future -- a sincere effort to correct one's past errors. In the simplest case, that might include returning any property one had stolen, and making other restitution as appropriate. Since many offences are not easily cancelled in this way, it might also include other forms of apology, willingness to accept punishment, and new efforts to assist the causes one had formerly harmed. (An example here is Paul himself, who did what he could to make up for his earlier persecutions of Christians.) Wasn't there a discussion on the net, a year or two ago, about whether Hitler could be forgiven if he had repented on his deathbed, and whether or how he could have made up for his evildoing? CAR credmond@watmath