Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!pawl!kudla
From: kudla@pawl.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: PKZip Amiga arrives
Message-ID: <}GVK0@rpi.edu>
Date: 22 Jan 90 07:18:12 GMT
References: <1245@crash.cts.com>
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Lines: 114

In <1245@crash.cts.com> bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) writes:

-> Oh come on here!  Who the heck are you to be telling the MAJORITY
-> of users out there what they should or shouldn't be using or doing?

I'm not. I'm saying that they haven't the right to force me to pick up
the mouse. Ever.

-> the need for a small CLI based utility but that also goes hand in
-> require that everyone out there in the Amiga community learn
-> scripts?  You might as well try pissing into the wind.

No, but I would like to ban any archiver that cannot be run
interactively. I'd also like to see archivers for which there is no
publically available source be left to rot as they should be. 

-> Seems to me the next logical step is to create a CLI based ZIP
-> utility for all you elitest slobs out there who think nothing of
-> sitting around banging on your CLI and writing scripts to automate
-> your tasks (which require one hell of alot more time than clicking
-> on PKZIP and unzipping a file).  

Me: extract *

You: clickety click, start Zip
     clickety click, click, click, select all the archives you want to
     extract. 
     clickety, click on the "extract" button.

This assumes you don't GURU the machine by running out of chip.

-> You know, the world doesn't revolve around you people who are heavy
-> CLI users. 

Yes, it does. Show me a programmer who uses a clickety-click interface
exclusively (or even mostly) and I'll show you a Hypercard user.

-> Although I like the CLI and use it often, I can see the need for
-> these easy to use Archivers and I don't have a closed mind about
-> the product.  Instead I see it as a step to a more universally
-> accepted archiver for ALL computer types and ALL types of users,
-> novice or experienced.  

Not when experienced users are forced to spend their time clicking to
hell and back to do something that would take four seconds to do using
a script that took two minutes to write. My complaints are based on
(1) the unavailability of a small cli-based Zip and
(2) the sysops of many boards forcing all uploads to be Zipped because
a fraction of the users don't know how to type (although they managed
to figure out the CLI-based BBS pretty well... skypix ain't that
popular you know). 

-> You, on the other hand, have no tolerance for anyone who has less
-> knowledge than you so you have to cut down those opinions because
-> you have less confindence in your own abilities than you put on.

Excuse me? I cut down on those who force me to take up my precious
disk space, quit my terminal just to de-archive stuff lest it crash,
use the mouse, look at colors which are *not* my preferences (isn't
the name of the program - "preferences" - enough?), look at a low-res
screen, use a different archiver on Unix, and abandon all my
time-honored procedures. As a matter of fact, I'm a pretty lousy C
programmer. But my system runs real smoothly, and all I ask is that it
stay that way.

-> Sure, a *nix version would be nice..in fact it is a requirement in
-> my opinion.  I feel the PKAZIP interface is elegant and not
-> "hideous". 

That's nice. Obviously, so did the designers. In fact, they probably
thought it was "wicked rad ]<uel" or something. However, a lot fewer
people would have complained had their program paid attention to the
user's preferences rather than assuming everyone likes low-res
greyscale. 

-> It's easy to use and provides the user with many options.  Too bad
-> you don't have any memory. 

I don't have any memory? I have a meg, and the standard half-meg of
chip out of that. If a program (and not even an application, but a
simple utility!) cannot multitask well in such a commonplace, normal
environment, it's cutting out a good 600,000 or more users. Next
you'll be bitching at someone who complains that TCP is slow because
they "only" have 2400 baud.

-> Zoo, give me a break!  Yes, it's time for a CLI only version of ZIP
-> but let's not go backwards to Zoo or the horrible alphabet soup of
-> LHArc! 

Horrible alphabet soup? Looks pretty much the same (perhaps simpler)
than Arc or Zoo. I'm also interested in your confusion at the array of
commands in these archivers when everytime you run Zip you're forced
to look at *its* whole gamut of commands. "Now, where is that
add-recursive button...."

 How is Zoo going backwards when most Amiga/Unix users still use it
regularly? Most Net postings are in that format, in fact.

-> Yeah, simple is the thought you put into your reply on this
-> subject.

I've been archiving stuff and unarchiving stuff for years as the sysop
of two BBSes and user of hundreds, and now Usenet. I've put a great
deal of thought into what makes a good archiver. There are solutions
for those who are uncomfortable with the CLI-only archivers;
currently, there is no solution for those who are uncomfortable with
the Intuition-only Zip, let alone those of us who would automate our
work. Can you concede at least that much?
-- 
Robert Jude Kudla  <kudla@pawl.rpi.edu>

"Famous? I'm not famous. People come up to me after a show and say
    'Hey, Steve!'"
                                -Jon Anderson