Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!mcsun!sunic!tut!ra!misan From: misan@ra.abo.fi (Annika Forsten DC) Newsgroups: rec.birds Subject: Re: English & Latin Bird Names Message-ID: Date: 16 Jan 90 07:33:23 GMT References: <53546@oliveb.olivetti.com> <1990Jan15.135014.11727@axion.bt.co.uk> <15807@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> Sender: misan@ra.abo.fi Organization: Abo Academy, Finland Lines: 99 In-reply-to: dmark@acsu.Buffalo.EDU's message of 15 Jan 90 19:46:53 GMT In article <15807@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> dmark@acsu.Buffalo.EDU (David Mark) writes: > >> It seems that the British had this habit of giving the generic > >> family name as the common english name to those birds represented in > >> Britain by a single species of the family. Other examples are the Wren, > >Bear in mind that _T. troglodytes_ was named the Wren long before > >taxonomists had stumbled across another few related species in the States. > >Similarly, Nuthatch and Jay are old names for familiar, common British > >birds, named long before there was a full understanding (or even discovery?) > But, the English themselves do this sort of thing a lot, using Redstart > for one species, and Black Redstart for another species THAT ALSO OCCURS > IN ENGLAND! So, if I am biring at Dungeness, and someone says "here's This is done in Finnish as well, as has always been a source of exasparation to me, it is much better in Swedish. Tylli = Ringed Plover, Pikkutylli = Little Ringed Plover Kuovi = Curlew, Pikkukouvi = Whimbrel (Maa)Kotka = Golden Eagle, Merikotka = White-tailed Eagle (Laulu) Joutsen = Whooper Swan, Kyhmyjoutsen = Mute Swan etc. The species that have the family name for the common one and a 'qualifier' for rarer species of the same family (mostly rare in Finland though) are numerous. In Finnish lots of species also have names that doesn't tell anything about what sort of bird it is, often derived from the call. Haapana = Wigeon, Alli = Oldsquaw, Tylli, Kuovi. Mustalintu is Common Scoter, but translated it means Blackbird. Pilkkasiipi again is Velvet Scoter, but translated it means Spotwing. Well, some things are better in Finnish than in Swedish too. In Finnish Warblers are not all called Warblers, there are different groups. Locustella Warbler are called sirkkalintu, Acrocephalus kerttunen, Sylvia kerttu, Phylloscopus uunilintu, etc. This is a good thing because it helps to know what one is talking about. > > "Northern" harrier is still known as Hen Harrier in Britain. > > > That is a very regressive name, since it at least implies predation > on domestic fowl. That would seem like an excellent case for the > British to compromise, and adopt the name "Northern Harrier", that > if it caught on might improve the image over raptors in the UK. May be true. It is also true that Northern Harrier is the northernmost Harrier. This is easily experienced in Finland, but I'm not sure the English feel that this is clear. Northern Harrier is, however, a rather cumbersome name. In the USA it is easy to say: 'I've got a Harrier' , and everyone knows you're talking about Northern. In England you've got to be more precise and say you mean Northern. Personally, I don't like names like Northern or Common or Western. The name ought to tell something more about the bird. Preferably something that's different from all the other species. So when you see the species, you can just say, 'I've got a Golden'. > >The BOU is currently making moves to standardise the English names of > >West Palearctic birds. A subject that can be debated ad nauseum. > >For example, is it sensible to change the name of _Melanitta nigra_ from > >Common Scoter (because it is not the most common scoter over the whole of > >its range) to Black Scoter (as the Americans call it). I think that's ok, Black is much better than Common as a qualifier and the species is the only totally black anyway. > So, the AOU, in its wisdom, decided that we should all learn the new name, > "Pacific Loon", for all of our non-Alaskan birds; and that the ones we > don't get here should be called "Arctic Loon" even though they don't > call them that where they get them (Europe)! They could have left ours > as "Artic Loon", and called the Eurasian form "Black-throated Loon", or > even "Black-throated Diver". I think Pacific Loon should be the name for G. pacifica, Artic Loon for G. pacifica/arctica (we need a name for that, since they are difficult to tell apart) and then something new or Black-throated Loon/Diver for G. arctica. Black-throated isn't very good of course, since they both have black throats, but the new name should be for the 'new' species and keep Arctic Loon for what it has always meant. > And, oh BOU types, there's a good nominee for the first UK concession to > American usage: isn't "Loon" a far more picturesque and colorful term > for Gavia than "Diver"? I agree, much better. In German, both Grebes and Loons are called Taucher (diver). Stupid. > dmark@cs.buffalo.edu I lived in Buffalo, NY for 9 months when I was eight. Unfortunately I hadn't started birding then, I got intrested just afterwards. We visited California too and walked on a mountain where we were told the California Condor bred. We found a feather which they told us was from the Condor and we were going to bring it back home with us. On the last plane (we went via Iceland), we forgot it behind. It's been bothering me for a long time, it would be nice to find out if it really was a Condor feather. I just remember it was long. Thanks everyone, for all the info about shorebird hot-spots. I hope I'll be able to come over soon and check it out. It would be cheap now as the dollar is very cheap at the moment. Annika Forsten, Abo Akademi, Finland misan@ra.abo.fi