Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!jarthur!usc!ucsd!nosc!marlin!bwalker
From: bwalker@marlin.NOSC.MIL (Beth Walker)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re:  Assembler and teaching Software engineering
Message-ID: <1348@marlin.NOSC.MIL>
Date: 16 Mar 90 17:15:28 GMT
References: <891@gistdev.gist.com> <1003@dms.UUCP> <1940@opus.cs.mcgill.ca>
Reply-To: bwalker@marlin.nosc.mil.UUCP (Beth Walker)
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego
Lines: 59


In article <1940@opus.cs.mcgill.ca>, 
peterd@opus.cs.mcgill.ca (Peter Deutsch) writes:  

> I have seen earlier discussions on the net (I think it was
> in comp.edu) along the lines of "but why even teach
> assembler?  [.. stuff deleted}

> I would maintain that if you wrote a 500
> line assembler program that was not designed along proper
> engineering principles (eg. structure your tasks,
> eliminate side-effects, document your code, develop and
> debug in a methodical manner, changing no more than a
> single variable in the debugging process to avoid masking
> problems, etc) then your program just can't be made to
> work. I have seen too many examples where it wasn't and it
> didn't.

[ .. deleted text ]
> I like to think my course
> serves to "demystify" the computer for novices, gives
> confidence needed to tackle large projects and, as a bonus
> serves as a first exposure to some basic software
> engineering principles.

I tend to agree with Peter.  I thought I would give a 
perspective from different point of view, as my 
background in CS is perhaps not typical.

I am employed full-time, working in CS/SE, am 
currently working on a Masters in CS, and have a BS
in Zoology.  My 'undergrad' CS experience was all 
on-the-job.  My very first assignment was to optimize
(by hand) the assember output of an executive program 
written in LISP.  The assembler was a home-grown,
written for a bit-slice stack machine developed in house.  
My second assignment was developing a screen-oriented
editor in Z-80 assembler. 

I had the good fortune to work for people that insisted
on a structured approach to coding... one entrance, one
exit, etc.  I got a very good grounding in both assembler
language, debugging skills, team development, etc.  

Unfortunately, not all schools appear to stress the 
Software Engineering aspects of programming in
the introductory courses.  When I went back to school 
for my Masters, I found that most of the students 
had very poor skills in designing and debugging programs.  
In one class (upper division), there was a team project 
to build an assembler.  My two team members had only 
a vague idea of what an assembler did, and what its output 
was supposed to be.  Not having taken the school's 
prerec assembler course myself, I can't say how 
it was structured.  However, undergrad courses at that 
school typically used toy programs for lab assignments,
and had very little to say about how programs should
be organized.  I do know that virtually all undergrads
dreaded having to take the assembler course...