Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!ogicse!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!apollo!perry
From: perry@apollo.HP.COM (Jim Perry)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: problems/risks due to programming language, stories requested
Message-ID: <494a1656.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>
Date: 19 Mar 90 16:11:00 GMT
References: <159@uninet.vbo.dec.com> <1527@amethyst.math.arizona.edu>
Sender: root@apollo.HP.COM
Reply-To: perry@apollo.HP.COM (Jim Perry)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division; Chelmsford, MA
Lines: 50

In article <1527@amethyst.math.arizona.edu> raw@math.arizona.edu (Rich Walters) writes:
>In article <159@uninet.vbo.dec.com> vanavermaet@kerber.dec.com writes:
>>O.K., the semantics are well-defined (as may people have pointed out),
>>but it still IS dangerous. That (IMHO) is a very important factor (and to me, 
>>a reason not to use C).
>>
>>Peter Van Avermaet
>
>
>Do you refuse to drive a car because an irresponsible person could drive one
>through a crowded play ground?

No, but I refuse to drive a car without a fuel gauge, or without
brakes (even though I could opt to have aftermarket brakes, controlled
by a bicycle brake handle clamped onto the gearshift, installed), or
with no interlock preventing me from shifting into reverse at highway
speed ("but that's a feature! it means you don't need brakes!")

>Yes C can be dangerous.  But many useful things can be or are dangerous.  That
>is why users(programmers) need to be trained in its correct use, just as
>drivers need to be trained in the correct use of an automobile.  To continue
>the analogy, if the rules of the road aren't obeyed, chaos and destruction
>reign.

This isn't the issue, the problem with C is not that untrained
programmers misuse it, it's that its "flexibility" and lack of error
detection allow trained software engineers to make mistakes, through
simple typos or similar dumb but common gaffes, that are detected by
other languages.  [Or, as has come out here, by better C compilers or
interpreters than are commonly encountered, or by some versions of
"lint"].  C is not magic, it's just another algol-derived programming
language; it doesn't let you do anything that you can't do in other
languages (not some particular other language, or implementation of
some other language, but other, similar, languages).  What C does have
going for it is that it's simple, easy to write compilers for, and
implemented on all sorts of iron.  This is more a historical issue
related to its association with UNIX than a feature of the language
design.  Nevertheless, it's why I at least write in C.

A well-trained driver with years of experience can still run out of
gas if they forget to check the gas dipstick before starting the trip.
Presumably after this happens a few times, that driver will remember
to check, or develop the habit of filling the tank when the car has
travelled half the total expected range since the last fill-up, but
I'd rather have a car with a fuel gauge in the first place and never
have the problem arise.
-
Jim Perry   perry@apollo.hp.com    HP/Apollo, Chelmsford MA
This particularly rapid unintelligible patter 
isn't generally heard and if it is it doesn't matter.