Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!mace.cc.purdue.edu!asd From: asd@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Doug McClure) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple Subject: Re: Grass-roots perspective on the II line Message-ID: <4410@mace.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Mar 90 08:32:35 GMT References: <49335dbf.f08b@frosh.engin.umich.edu> Organization: Purdue University Computing Center Lines: 90 In article <49335dbf.f08b@frosh.engin.umich.edu> apoy@caen.engin.umich.edu (Alfred Lim Poy) writes: >many would like to see. The history of the Apple II line goes >back and takes its roots in the EDUCATIONAL field. Sure, IIs are >great hacking machines, but the odds are that you first had exposure >to the II in elementary or middle school. I got my II+ way back in For a lot of people yes, but as I understand it (any real old Apple II'ers out there may correct me) the Apple II was of course an expansion of the Apple I which had it's roots in the home / hobbyist field. Use in this area exploded (easily seen by all the incredibly diverse products that could be found in one of those Apple Blue Books. remember those? Had listings for hardware products to do about anything!) and got a HUGE boost by VisiCalc coming along, which REALLY got the Apple II going (note: VisiCalc is business/productivity. My dad even still uses it!). And then, or during/along the way, Apple II's really started getting into schools. I don't ever remember the Apple II having roots in education, but that it grew into that area and took it over/created that area. >families with children. This is where the strength of the II field >is, in the EDUCATIONAL market. It has the name recognition and the It also lies in the home/hobbyist/small business market. Or at least it always "had" (has?). Course, don't think you'll ever hear Apple say the II exists for those latter two areas. >me wrong, yes the GS needs more speed (7 MHz is a nice number), yes 8 is nicer (2^3). 16 even better (2^4 or 2^(2^2)) 32 is even lovelier :) and on and on. Gosh, can ya tell I'm a CS major. Power 2 to you! >functions in a respectable manner at reasonable cost. Things like >blitter chips, built-in stereo, ultra-fast 20MHz processors, Well, unless something goes wrong, from what I read and remember, the 20MHz processor would NOT be that expensive as it can use existing technology/chip manufacturing techniques to make it and that the manufacturer has GUARANTEED that it will work. Sounds pretty mass production, IE: cheap, to me. >640X400X265 graphics, built in scsi ports, and the like are all Built in SCSI does seem pushing it a bit much. >tag. If a user isn't going to *NEED* this technology, its just >another that you have to pay for "because its there", and that makes >people think twice about just how well the machine really fits their There's a saying about data storage: "Data always expands to fill a given storage medium." If you give people a powerful machine, powerful things will appear for it. If you give them a Slug 4k computer, don't expect anything. Take a look at all the powerful stuff on the Mac II. That stuff exists because the Mac II exists as it is. If the Mac was still a Fat Mac, those programs wouldn't exist, or not nearly as comprehensive/powerful as they do. >can easily regain their monopoly in the educational market (are real >people really buying Amigas anyway? :-). If the survival of the Are they real? The folks I know who have Amigas are mainly CS majors, very smart, extremely talented, and writing software for their machines. With the exception of one person, I do not personally know ONE person at all who could compare in their knowledge about the Apple II's. And the one person I DO know isn't developing the kinds of powerful products for the Apple as the people I know about for the Amiga are doing. Might be argued are real people buying Apple II's. >Apple II line means getting consumers to purchase II's, and getting >consumers to purchase II's requires low prices, and if low prices >dictates having a 'basic' model computer, then I'm all for it !!!!! We beseech the, lord of computing, bring upon our heads a cheap Apple IIgs+ that will run at speeds beyond comprehension, have memory to stagger the mind, and F&*%ing blow Amigas into obsolecence! Deliver us from the evils of slow cpu, mono tunes, and half decent graphics. Bring forth for your loyal subjects a machine that will be scoffed at no more, but will do a little ass kicking itself! -k -- Disclaimer: Any negative views about the Apple II line are only the frustrations of a long time Apple II supporter. Any passages resembling religious passages are purely for convience. All mistakes and misinformation are there on purpose, all facts and truth's, purely coincidental. p.s. Ever read the disclaimer on Apple software? Does Apple know how to write a disclaimer or what!