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From: toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple,comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: GS (What you want _requires_ moving closer to the Amiga...)
Message-ID: <1990Mar17.122507.18534@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu>
Date: 17 Mar 90 12:25:07 GMT
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jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Darc Tangent) writes:

>	Your remarks about the Amiga's hardware are very accurate, but you seem
>to not know much about currently available Amiga software.

You're right, I don't. I was working from memory, which is a few years old on
that score.

> There is far much
>more productivity software available for the Amiga than for the Apple IIGS.  

Fine. But the marketing still sucks. Until Commodore can get the kind of
network that Apple, IBM, and Tandy have going they won't be considered by many
people because they don't know if Commodore will still be there after the sale.

>Where are the GS CAD programs?  TeX applications?  Math programs like Maple and
>MatLab?  The GS doesn't have them because it doesn't have the processing or
>graphics power for those types of applications.  The Amiga does.

We're aware of that. We've been flaming Apple for years and they haven't really
listened until now, and now they seem to need convincing that it is worth their
time and effort to produce a decent GS -- a task so simple that third parties
have provided the (sadly) necessary add-ons for years!

> The Amiga
>certainly has as many word processors, dtp programs, spreadsheets, and data
>bases as the GS (not counting all the ancient general Apple II software that
>is hopelessly behind the times (I'm not talking about the newer Apple II
>software like DB Master Pro, etc.)).

Hopelessly behind the times? They still work! Why should I stop using something
because it is old, when it still does what I want better than anything else
available?

> Of course, for graphics and sound
>processing, there is much more available on the Amiga,

Graphics, yes. Sound, HELL NO. Not until the Amiga has a 32 voice synthesizer
on board. You've never heard of SoundSmith, I take it. And when the new sound
tools start showing up in applications...

>as well as for system
>level things like UNIX type shells and utilities, compilers, text editors,
>and terminals.

That's because Apple's software support (APW) has sucked the big one. Until
they invest the man-hours to develop a decent C compiler for the 65816 (and
don't try to tell me it can't be done, 68K compilers sucked until the did
the same thing; though I admit they did have an easier job of it because the
68K instruction set is nearly C primitives already) it will stay that way.

The actual programs we do have are actually pretty good, it's the
development systems that are lacking. Apple II software seems to have a
better hit rate because most of our developers really care about the machine
and not just their paycheck.

> Now admittedly if you count all of the old Apple II software,
>the GS does have more software, but most of those 10000+ packages just cannot
>compete with modern programs for any machine.

Why do they have to, if they are more cost-effective at what they do? Which
certain examples may or may not be, to be sure.

>Before I get flamed, I would like to mention that I've owned an Apple II for
>ten years.

Good for you. But that doesn't mean you're automatically right about what
_we_ see in the Apple II. There are qualities that the Apple II has that the
Amiga does not, and probably never will. Until the Amiga has a programming
language and a hands-on machine language environment built in I will never
buy one. They are what I like most about my Apple II's and I wouldn't give
them up for the world. I'd rather see a machine like my Apple //f, that does
anything I'd want from an Amiga and still gives me my II.

Todd Whitesel
toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu