Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!wuarchive!dinorah.wustl.edu!mary
From: mary@dinorah.wustl.edu (Mary E. Leibach)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Do birds experience pain as we do?
Message-ID: <1990Mar20.173329.19889@dinorah.wustl.edu>
Date: 20 Mar 90 17:33:29 GMT
References: <20693@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> <1990Mar20.135528.14793@sci.ccny.cuny.edu>
Organization: Computerized Medical Systems
Lines: 77
In-Reply-To: christ@sci.ccny.cuny.edu's message of Tue, 20 Mar 90 13:55:28 GM


christ@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Chris Thompson) writes:
>You might try giving anyone of these people a buzz.  What you've asked,
>is a lot like asking a bird (or any anumal) whether it feels emotions, or
>has opinions on things, or, well, take your pick.  We can't KNOW, because
>THEY can't tell us.  Now, before anyone flames me on this, let me add that
>I have opinions on the matter, and we probably agree on most of them.  But
>I stand by what I said- we can't KNOW until we can communicate.

No flames here, but I do disagree.  First you might want to check out an 
article in Bird Talk Magazine.  There they discussed the research a
certain person is doing with an African Gray.  They have taught him to
talk, and he can identify objects, identify colors, and count.  His
intelligence is estimated to rival that of a chimp's.  He even
distinguishes between cooked corn and hard corn, calling the latter
"rock corn".  "rock corn" is a phrase of his own making.  He was
taught to identify a rock as "rock", and they suppose he associated
the rock's characteristic of hardness with the hard corn.
Unfortunately I don't remember which specific issue this was in.
However, in almost every issue of Bird Talk you will find examples of
parrots associating certain words with their meanings, and I also
remember an excellent article on Amazon body language.  There was also
a story about two larger parrots.  One got out of his cage, but his
friends cage was locked.  The free bird had seen the cage unlocked and
knew where the key was.  He got it, and tried to use it on the lock.
The key fell into the cage.  The caged bird picked up and passed it
out to the free bird.  The free bird succeeded in unlocking the cage,
but the owner who was supposed to be gone and was actually watching
their antics, prevent the escape from proceeding further.  They
presented this as a true story (I do wonder a little), but if it is
true, it shows birds working together and using tools!  I do know my
two largest parrots (cockatiel and conure) can untie knots, unscrew
wingnuts, and disassemble small chains.

Living with 3 parrots and 2 finches has really enriched my life.  I
have also gotten to the point where I can identify their moods and
understand their communication between each other and with me.  Thanks
to Cally's excellent training, if you give me a picture of a cockatiel
I can usually identify the mood of the bird at the time the picture
was took.  There have been a few pictures of cockatiels in Bird Talk,
where the subjects were very upset and about to have a hissy fit.  ;-)
My parrots use body language and calls to communicate with each other,
and body and verbal language, and gestures to communicate with me.
For example, when Cally wants her head preened, she will lean it
against Vila's chest.  If the preening does not come in a (to her)
reasonable amount of time, she will proceed to chew on his toes until
he complies with the request.  When Cally wants out of the cage, she
will sit by the front door.  If she is really adamant, she will go to
a smaller side door, and repeatedly lift it up and drop it with a bang
until she is let out, or looses interest.  She plays peek-a-boo with
me, and SAYS "peek-a-boo".  She says and knows the difference between
"I'll be back" and "I'll be RIGHT back".  Cally also knows her name,
and will recognize it even when it's said on TV.  (All of my birds are
named after characters in Blake's 7.  When Cally first watched it,
every time her name was said, she answered with "Pretty Bird" or a
wolf whistle.)

Blakey rivals Cally's vocabulary if not her intelligence.  The lastest
new thing he has said is "Mary Bird".  I have NEVER said "Mary Bird"
before he said it.  He knows his name, and can say Cally's (I don't
know if he associates the word with her), and seems to know that
"Mary" (or rather "Mary Bird" ;-) is my name, even though I don't say
it ("Mary") much. 

Back to the original subject.  Yes, my birds have given me reason to
believe they feel (and aren't particularly fond of) pain.  A few weeks
ago, Cally was having some sort of problem with her new flight
feathers (she's moulting, again, yet, take your pick).  When she
raised or stretched her left wing, she yelped.  She could fly all
right, but moving the wing in a certain way hurt.  It didn't take more
than a day or two to get over it, but I'd say it was clear evidence
for her feeling pain.  There have been other examples of pain, but
this was the best one that did not include a reason to be fearful or
stressed.   Cally and Blakey thrash when they are scared, Vila just
cowers.

	-Mary