Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!princeton!phoenix!Alliant.COM From: joshi@Alliant.COM ( Bhagirath Joshi) Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern Subject: Re: Zen Buddhism Message-ID: <14732@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Date: 21 Mar 90 14:33:13 GMT References: <14546@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <14567@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Sender: mukund@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Lines: 186 Approved: mukund@phoenix.Princeton.EDU In article <14567@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> meuer@poincare.geom.umn.edu writes: >simmonds@demon.siemens.com (Tom Simmonds) writes: > > > >>Historically, Buddhism began in an environment that was predominantly >>Hindu. The idea of Atman ( or 'Higher Self") is central to Hinduism. The >>Buddhists saw this as a concept which had to be transcended in order to >>experience 'tathata', so they contradicted it with a counter-concept of >>'Anatman' or 'No-Self'. The purpose was tho eliminate an obstacle to >>Zen experience. It was intended to jolt people out of what was then the >>predominant conceptual model of reality. > >Tom (or anyone else), could you elborate on Anatman? What does it >mean that there is "No-Self?" I have almost no exposure to Zen and >this is new to me. Doesn't all of our conscious experience tell us we >each have a "self?" If fact, isn't conscious experience itself an >experience or even a definition of the self? If I experience >consciousness, am I not a self? If not, what am I? > >>Of course, since conceptualization IS a part of conscious experience, it >>can't be ignored or denied by a pre-bias against it, and Zen Buddhists >>recognize that fact. For this reason they also reject 'quietistic' >>meditation, which seeks to stop the flow of thoughts. What they seek >>to do is to stop *judging* concepts, or any other type of experience, as >>'true' or 'false', 'valid' or 'invalid'. To them, conscious experience >>is reality; and to set up a fixed conceptual model as a 'true' representation >>of reality is to exclude some part of experience, since any model imposes >>a set of bounds. A Zen Buddhist seeks to remain open to all experience, >>whether or not it fits into some rational scheme. Conceptual schemes come >>and go, but conscious experience rolls on. 'Tathata' is viewed as being >>unlimited and inexhaustible, hence there is no model which can accurately >>describe it. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Tom Simmonds (simmonds@demon.siemens.com) > >Does Zen make a distinction between reality and a conceptual model >that describes reality? It seems obvious that a conceptual model is >not the same thing as reality and therefore can not be complete. But >does Zen teach that the underlying reality does not exist at all, or >only that our conceptualization of it will never be complete? > >-mark > > > >-- > Mark Meuer > Geometry Supercomputer Project > meuer@geom.umn.edu > > 1200 Washington Ave. So. > Minneapolis, MN 55415 > > (612) 624-1867 The galactic great wall and Hindu Mythology. The galectic great wall, a most distant object found in the universe, some 20 billion light years away, puzzles the cosmologist. This object is unusual in nature. It is 200 light years long, 100 light years wide and 15 light years thick. It is like a slab. The important and puzzling aspect is that it is roughly 20 billion light years away. This is in conflict with the accepted time for the creation of the universe, which is estimated to be 15 billion light years. The existance of such an object in the universe says that there is some misunderstanding about the universe. It shows that there is a problem with the calculations done by scientists. This is not new to the scientific world. When- ever something new is discovered, old theories are revised. The science of astronomy is also young. The astronomical science, so far have failed to detect the true nature of the universe and the expanse. The age of universe, following the Hindu understanding of universe as stated, in the old books of Veda revealed that the universe exists since 154 trillion years. This is in cotrast to the popular theories of 15 billion years age of the universe. If we accept this 154 trillion years age than the speed with which the universe is expanding becomes more realistic. The very first calculation reveals that the rate of expansion of the universe some 20 billion years ago was roughly 24 miles per second. This velocity it is less than the escape velo- city. What it says that universe will start contracting once more. The detail theory is explained in the scientific treas- ure books Veda, namely Rug Ved, sham Ved, Yajurva Veda and Atharva Ved . Brahm in sanskrit means Universe. Brahma means the creator of universe. Brahma and Brahm is interchangeable. According to Rug Ved, the universe was nothing but a huge light and with the nad of aum, Brahma , Vishnu and Mahesh were created.. Here Brahma should be interpreted as Brahm. Age of the present Brahma is 50 Brahma years 7 Mahayuga and 11,500 Divya Years. One Brahma Year = 360 Brahma Days. One Brahma Day = 12 Brahma hours of Day light and March 19, 1990 - 2 - 12 Brahma Hours of night 12 Brahma hours of Day light = 71 Kingdoms of Lord Manu. 1 Kingdom of Manu = 14 Maha yug 1 Maha yug = 12000 Divya Years 1 Divya Year = 360 Earth Years. 1 Brahm Year = 360 x 12000 x 14 x 71 x 2 x 360 = 3,091,737,600,000 years. Using this to calculate the age of Brahma, the time of creation of Veda to the present time comes to 154.58 Trillion years. Therefore the time since the big Bang is = 154.58 Trillion Years. The veda also says the life of Brahma is 100 Brahma years. At that age Brahma will die. The universe will die. Again with nad of Aum New Brahma will be created. There- fore, 50 years of Brahma becomes very significant number. What it says the half life of the universe is over. In another 154 trillion years the universe once more will go back to its initial energy form. The time of last flooding on the earth 11,500 x 360 years = 4.14 Million years. The time since the last solar destruction in which the sun exploded and gulped all the planets, comes to 12000x14x71x360 + 12000x7x360 + 11500x360 = 4,328,460,000 Years The time before the sun runs out of its atomic fuel and explodes, comes to 4,259,700,000 Years. Can you see the striking resembleance. Roughly 4 bil- lion years is the remaining life time calculated by our scientists and the one which is agreed upon by the scien- tific community. March 19, 1990