Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!think!paperboy!husc6!m2c!wpi!gwydion@Dyved.csc.ti.com From: gwydion@Dyved.csc.ti.com (Basalat Ali Raja) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: "People of the Book" Message-ID: <9457@wpi.wpi.edu> Date: 7 Mar 90 01:19:17 GMT References: <4770@accuvax.nwu.edu> <4775@accuvax.nwu.edu> Sender: shari@wpi.wpi.edu Lines: 144 Approved: shari@wpi.edu In article <4775@accuvax.nwu.edu> Dave Bakken writes: >I would be very interested in seeing Qur'anic verses that make this >very clear (I am not saying they don't exist --- I have no idea. But >I would be very intersted in seeing the references). Chapter 112: The Unity 1) Say: He, Allah, is One. 2) Allah is He on Whom all depend. 3) He begets not, nor is He begotten. 4) And none is like Him. In this, you will find a categorical and uncompromising rejection of the Trinity. Also, the verses that Naim refered us to: [4:171] O followers of the Book! do not exceeed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an Apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God, far be it from His glory that He should have a son; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; and Allah is sufficient for a Protector. [5:72] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and Your Lord. Surely, whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust. [5:73] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbeleive. [5:74] Will they not turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [5:75] The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away. [5:76] Say: Do you serve beside Allah that which does not control for you any harm, or any profit? And Allah - He is the Hearing, the Knowing. [5:77] Say: O followers of the Book! be not unduly immoderate in your religion, and do not follow the low desires of people who went astray before and led many astray and went astray from the right path. [5:78] Those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel were cursed by the tongue of Da'oud and Isa, son of Marium; this was because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limit. [5:79] They used not to forbid each other the hateful things (which) they did; certainly evil was that which they did. >Unfortunately, there was no Bible translated into Arabic for about 100 >years after Muhammad. It would not have helped much if there had been a Bible in Arabic at the time of the Prophet - he could neither read nor write. This is one of the proofs of the Divine nature of the Quran; it cannot be said that he copied the Scriptures of other peoples. >And I understand that he learned much of what >he knew about Christianity from John of Alexandria, a Christian heretic >who taught that Christians worship three gods: the Father, the Son, and >the mary. I believe that one of the controversies of the Catholic church is a discussion about whether Mary is divine or not? It would thus seem that there are Christians who beleive Mary to be a god. I have run across very few Christians who believe that Jesus was not divine. Anyways, what Mohammed (saws) knew or did not know about Christianity is not all that important, aside from what he learnt from the Quran. Aside from the disingenious "It seems to me" and "My understanding is", I will now address the issue that you have raised above. Assume that all of the information that Mohammed had about the life of Jesus was transmitted to him through purely secular sources. In such a case, he would be accusable of duplicity and plagarism. It seems that a plagarist would do his best to insure that his story fitted what he already knew. However, there a lot of discrepancies between what the Quran says about the life of Jesus and what the Bible says about the life of Jesus. For example, consider the following. Jesus spoke out against people who accused his mother of harlotry when he was in his cradle, a new born babe. Also his miracle of breathing life into a bird of clay is mentioned. [3:46] And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones. [3:47] She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter. He only says to it, Be, and it is. [3:48] And He will teach him the Book of wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel. [3:49] And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel. That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers. [3:50] And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat, and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden you, and I have come to you with a sign from you Lord, therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me. [3:51] Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path. As you can see, the story is somewhat similar to the one told in the Bible, but it is not the same at all. There are obvious significant differences. Were these discrepanices the figment of the imagination of a creative storyteller? But we already know that Mohammed wanted credibility in the eyes of Christians. Why would he dispute already established facts? Or were they stories that have now been lost out of the folklore in Christinity surrounding Jesus? If a person accepts Divine revelation, then there is an easier way to explain these discrepancies - they have been lost out of Christian Scripture, and were lost at the time of Mohammed (saws). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [3:64] Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: bear witness that we are Muslims.