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From: gwydion@tavi.rice.edu (Basalat Ali Raja)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Biblical Trinity is shirk
Message-ID: <9650@wpi.wpi.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 90 20:54:48 GMT
References: <16597@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> <18792@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> <16686@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> <18849@megaron.cs.arizona.edu>
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In article <18849@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@megaron.cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:
>I do not think the Bible is limiting the one God to three of anything -
>it may well be due to man's (relatively) severe limitations that He
>chose to explain Himself to man in this way.  And my examples were
>meant to show that some things have multiple attributes/whatever,
>not to be a complete analogy for the infinite God.

I agree that God can have multiple attributes.  I agree that God can
even present Himself in human form (as far as my limited understanding
goes).  I even agree that it is possible for God to have a son.  That
all, however, does not mean that God DID present Himself in human 
form.  It does not mean that God DOES have a son.

The Quran tells us that it is beneath the dignity of God to have a 
son.  The Christians believe otherwise.  

[8:35] It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son,
       glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says
       to it "Be", and it is.

(warning: your translation might have a different number; if you cannot
find it, look for this Ayat AROUND 35 or so.  I am using the Shakir
translation).

The Quran says that Jesus - the person who walked in Judea 2000 years
ago, was a mortal human being.  Nothing more.  He was a created being
just like the rest of us.

In the Bible, people are referred to as the sons of God all the time, 
just as Jesus.  However, by the Christians, all of these references 
are interpreted as being metaphorical, except for the references to 
Jesus.

>I did not say the Muslims did not understand the Trinity.  I said *I* did
>not understand the theological or practical problems they had with the
>doctrine.  And I hoped to learn some about this, and I certainly have!

I believe the Muslim attitude is that the Trinity is a hyped up 
mystery.  It is an attempt to still stay within the monotheistic
framework and yet give divine attributes to Jesus.

There are two types of things which we come across in the matter
of human thought.  One type is a mystery.  This occurs when we do
not have enough information about what we are trying to discuss
and nothing more can be said about the matter, simply because we do
not understand enough.  The other type is a contradiction.  Nothing
more can be said about the matter because one of the premises is 
false.

I believe that the trinity is better referred to as a contradiction,
not a mystery.  There are three members of the trinity - The Father,
the son, and the holy ghost.  The holy ghost is the angel Gabriel that
spoke to Mary:

[19:17] So she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; then We
        sent to her Our spirit; and there appeared to her a well-made 
        man.
[19:18] She said: Surely I fly for refuge from you to the Beneficient
        God, if you are one guarding (against evil).
[19:19] He siad: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give
        you a pure boy.

The son is Jesus, who possessed no divine qualities.  The Father is,
of course, the One God, who begets not, nor is begotten.

There you have it: a simple explanation of the mystery of the 
Trinity.