Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!snorkelwacker!apple!oliveb!amiga!cbmvax!daveh From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Commodore, Amiga, Apple, and MAC Message-ID: <10363@cbmvax.commodore.com> Date: 27 Mar 90 01:29:27 GMT References: <15003@snow-white.udel.EDU> Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA Lines: 65 In article <15003@snow-white.udel.EDU> BARRETT%FOREST.ECIL.IASTATE.EDU@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >FLAME ON!!!!! > Once again, Commodore has let Apple slip ahead of them in the >area of technological innovation. Had Commodore released (or at >least publicly shown) their video card, developed by the University >of Lowell, they might have captured some headlines for new >innovations. Commodore has publically shown the ULowell card. The last show I attended that had it on display was the World of Commodore show in Toronto, where it was running the X windows, in color of course, under AMIX. >But I doubt that the introduction of the video card will get any attention >now that Apple's new 24-bit graphics accelerator has been shown publicly. The Apple card sounds pretty good, even at the $2000 price tag. But it's mainly good for Apples, of course, since this is the first card of it's kind (eg, general purpose QuickDraw engine) shown for an Apple machine. But a big part of the announcement is that Apple would have you believe this is the first time hardware graphics acceleration has taken place. Sort of like the way they invented multitasking with Multifinder was released. Of course, this is an old technique, pioneered by IBM, who, by the way, invented the 3.5" disk several years after it was used by both Apple and Commodore, and also managed to invent multitasking, several years after Commodore used it and zillion after it was invented, or even available on a personal computer. >A total of ELEVEN custom chips are used to give the MAC IIFX impressive speed ... Actually, a normal, every-day 32k external cache has more to do with the Mac IIfx going fast than anything else. What Apple terms "custom chips" are simple gate arrays. They are, for instance, doing some kind of DMA transfer for hard disk I/O, rather than the 8 bit programmed I/O they've used in the past. Pretty much what we've been doing all along. While most of the Mac IIfx does go faster than the 7.16MHz of the A2000, everything I've seen so far indicates only the cache is running a real 40MHz 68030 cycle. Apparently Apple's hype "works good". I have yet to see a hard-core architectural description of the IIfx, just the stuff being discussed on the Apple net groups. NeXT's "mainframe on a chip" made things sound real good, until you opened the hood and took a look around. >Unlike the Amiga 3000, however, all of these custom chips run at the full speed >of the microprocessor. Well, you certainly seem to know quite a bit about the Mac IIfx and the A3000. Care to reveal some real sources (eg, print articles) so's I can read up on 'em too? BTW, for those who haven't been paying attention, all the IIfx display cards run over NuBus. The CPU slams on the brakes every time it talks to NuBus. There is one card that provides an AMD 29k at 30MHz to execute QuickDraw commands, and costs $2000. Really not bad for a video display with it's own CPU -- you can pay over twice that for a similar unit on a PClone. Of course, you can also buy A2000s for most rooms in the house for the price of one decked out IIfx. In any case, this can really make QuickDraw scream -- Apple claims 5x to 20x speedups. Of course, if you're using one of those programs that's working internally thinking in Postscript, and just uses QuickDraw to put the pixels up on the screen, you won't go any faster on this Mac setup. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Systems Engineering) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Too much of everything is just enough