Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!voder!pyramid!athertn!joshua
From: joshua@athertn.Atherton.COM (Flame Bait)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: beginning language--APL
Message-ID: <21493@joshua.athertn.Atherton.COM>
Date: 11 Apr 90 22:32:25 GMT
References: <4900002@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <28729@cup.portal.com> <13351@thorin.cs.unc.edu>
Reply-To: joshua@Atherton.COM (Flame Bait)
Organization: Atherton Technology, Sunnyvale, CA
Lines: 41

(Personal Background: I learned PASCAL first.  Even today when I write
C, AWK, or shell script, my code still has a PASCAL flavor (or after taste). 
I try to write strongly typed programs even when I am working in a loosely 
typed language.  I think this is a good thing.  I'd recommend PASCAL as a 
first language, even if they never use it again.  At a technical school,
I'd use C as a first language, since that is where the jobs are right now.)

denelsbe@unc.cs.unc.edu (Kevin Denelsbeck) writes:
>APL as a first language?  Sounds scary to me.  

It is scary!  I once worked with someone with a heavy APL background.
It was horrible: an entire UI written in about 4 pages, and no whitespace.  
The functions, variables, and macros all had 2 character names.  The 
design was really weird, with lots of global variables and strange flow 
control.  I do not know if this was the person or the language, of course.  

In article <28729@cup.portal.com> Edward_M_Cherlin@cup.portal.com writes:
> For non-CS students the rationale is that it is a math language which 
> has been successfully introduced in elementary school

Most non-CS students do not like math, they want text oriented languages
like ICON, BASIC, or AWK.  The fact that APL "has been successfully
introduced in elementary school" puts it below BASIC (which has been 
introduced in many elementary schools) and the UNIX shells (which are
often used by people with little or no computer background).
 
> and for CS the rationale is that it is a math and computer language 
> suitable for math, science, computer design, data processing, graphics, 
> music and more.  

Do not mix up "can be used" with "is suitable for" or "is good for".
Just because someone writes a data processing program in APL, does not
mean that APL is suitable for data processing programs.  APL is not
commonly used for science, computer design, data processing, graphics
or music programs, but then again APL is not common, period.

Joshua Levy
--------                Quote: "This is your brain.  
Addresses:                      This is your brain on APL.
joshua@atherton.com             Think about it."
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