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From: sb@pro-generic.cts.com (Stephen Brown)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: TransWarp III
Message-ID: <12078.infoapple.net@pro-generic>
Date: 2 May 90 07:26:46 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 69

In-Reply-To: message from brianw@microsoft.UUCP

Really, Brian Willoughby's message is about the ASIC 65816.
 
>I found it hard to believe (and still do) that some college kid has done a
> better job all by himself than what the Western Design Centre can do
with
>a team of enginners. Now I'm not too surprised that his "20 Mhz" CPU has
>turned out to be 15 Mhz (which you will note is only about 2 Mhz faster

Oh boy! If you don't believe that 'some college kid' has done this, you can
read the Michigan State University's alumni newsletter for details. You'll
read that he didn't do this task all by himself.  Some college kids can't
write. Others can. Why is it SO inconceivable that one particularly bright one
could co-design something really good? Got something against college students?
 
Bill Mensch may have been the chief designer of the 65816, but my
understanding is that his wife or daughter (or something) did the layout,
without CAD. His chip's design might be okay, but its far from optimum.

WDC's 62816's are experimental above 8 Mhz, and even the 8 Mhz ones are not
available in large quantity. ASIC's will be. WDC's 65816
chips will not run all instructions at full speed. ASIC's will. WDC's 65816
chips require 6 volts for the fast (experimental) ones. ASIC's take just 5, as
they should.  Indeed, the fastest WDC 65816's are 13 Mhz, but so few are
available (due to poor yield) that they are still a freak of nature.

>The fact is that the overall CPU speed
>is based on many factors, with the slowest measured timing being the limit.

What ARE you talking about? If the CLOCK speed can run at xx Mhz, then it says
something about all aspects of the IC's timing. Other than having a chip that
has to slow down for some instructions, please tell me how a chip whose clock
runs at xx Mhz ISNT a xx Mhz chip...

You seem to have a blind faith in WDC. If you note, the ABORT instruction in
the 65816 does not work according to the way its supposed to. What about that
tidbit?

>>---hey Apple, wanna buy some chips?
>
>I hope they don't, unless they do extensive compatibility testing on them.

Do you think that they wouldn't?

>Don't forget that a 8 Mhz 6502 is running like a 35 to 40 Mhz 8088.

That's really interesting. And a bit hard to prove, and completely nonsense if
you look at benchmarks, eg. those that appear in Lichty and Eyes on the 65816.


>10 Mhz 65C816 can keep up with a 20 Mhz 68000 (but I wouldn't put it
up against a 68040).  This is not considering video or disk I/O.


What??? The particular way that video or disk I/O is implemented is computer,
not CPU, specific. So please, don't consider video or disk I/O.

>Brian Willoughby

Why not contact ASIC, at (818) 597-9165 voice, or (818) 706-2178 fax, and ask
them. Why not get their interpretation of the facts before you hit the old red
alert?  I don't have any connection with these guys. I do have a short fuse
however, when there are individuals who will flame for no reason
but ignorant cynicism.

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