Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!sk2f+ From: sk2f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth D. Kadesh) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: CLUE: IT'S A HOME MACHINE! Message-ID: Date: 5 May 90 00:07:05 GMT References: <4aDvrMK00Ws185_UNi@andrew.cmu.edu>, <12668@wpi.wpi.edu> Organization: Class of '92, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 182 In-Reply-To: <12668@wpi.wpi.edu> I said: ->Just a bit fed up with a whole bunch of stuff. ->Get a clue, people: -> -> The Apple II as a HOME MACHINE. -> ->We're not asking for superior number crunching. ->We're not asking for supersonic speed. ->We're not asking for a machine that is the equal of the Mac IIfx! to which Jay Giurleo replies: > I'd sure love a Mac IIfx, but I own an Apple IIgs. All I would like >to see is apple make a computer that realistically does the things that >the computers of today do. The Mac is a "today" machine. The II line >is yesterdays machine. Don't get me wrong(I know someone will) The >apple is a good machine, but it needs updating. At the risk of being blunt, you're missing the point. Totally. If you need or want a IIfx, get one. But I ask you, what are you going to do with it? What will the IIfx do for you that your current computer won't? There is a market for the power computer, and there is a market for a personal computer. You really, really, DON'T need to word process at 25 mHz. It's overkill - just plain dumb. Unfortunately, the average consumer has been educated to look at the age of the machine, the speed at which it runs, and even the company label as reasons to buy a certain machine. I contend that a large percentage of users don't need there '386 accelerated super turbo PC for what they do. And when you say that the Mac is a "today" machine, I get ill. You're blind. You're not seeing the whole picture. There is no reason at all why the II and the Mac cannot coexist. They serve different markets (or they should). If you're not in that particular market, then your needs are serviced else where (power user). IF YOU TRUELY NEED THE POWER. Lest I be accused of being blind, I'm certainly not claiming that there are not problems with the IIgs as it stands now. That's why I'm writing this :-) ->parallel processing machine!) The age of the machine doesn't matter - ->WHAT MATTERS IS WHETHER OR NOT THE MACHINE DOES WHAT YOU NEED ->IT TO DO! > Yes that is true. However, it would be nice to think that the computer >could still do more if I asked it to. The reason I compare the GS to the if you NEED it to do more, then you should get a computer that does what you need. And what kind of "more" are you looking for that the GS cannot provide? >Mac is because that is exactly what the Mac does for me. I can use the >Mac without a problem. I can customize my Mac without waiting eons for it >to boot the finder. However, I can also program the Mac. And it's not as I'm sorry, but I find this difficult to believe. You have a problem using the GS? and the GS does not take "EONS" to boot the finder - have you used GS/OS 5.0? compare it to a Mac, which doesn't even touch the drives for the first few minutes after you turn it on! (kinda reminds me of an old tv that we had, which needed time for the picture tube to warm up). And that's just official system software. I've seen some amazingly complex programs start up so fast you would think they were on a hard drive, or something. And by amazingly complex, I mean something long as well as complicated. >difficult as some people might believe. Yes it does more, but it >has managers and other routines which do the dirty work for you. Maybe >it's more restrained as far as having ultimate control over the whole >machine, but it is much more refined. How much do you actually know about the GS? The GS has a complex set of toolbox routines and other managers that compare (design-wise) very favorably to the GS. As someone else mentioned elsewhere, there is a event manager (I've probably got it wrong, but my recall isn't very good today) that simplifies desktop programming and communication tremendously! Doesn't exist for the cumbersome Mac world. And GS/OS beats HFS hands down, in terms of expandibility and user support for outside functions. ->Case in point: I was the witness to a computer salesman trying to sell a ->Mac II to a student who ->was looking for something to do WORD PROCESSING on!! OVERKILL!!!! I ->could accomplish all ->that on my GS!!!! >I hate word processing on my GS. Have you ever word processed on a Mac? >The only word processor I'll use on my GS is Appleworks Classic. Why? >I don't have to wait for it. OK. A tarnish on the GS image - it's speed. I would say it's currently inadequate for anything involving intensive graphics. Yes, I've used Macs to do word processing. But the word processing only seems to get reasonable on the IIci's, and such forth. I had the opportunity to use a Mac+ last night, and it was awful. Slow as all hell! Give me Appleworks GS/classic any day. Of course, I'm one of those strange people who loved Applewriter. And I use emacs to do a lot of work work on the big machines here at school - I'm thinking of writing a basic text editor in the emacs style. ->anymore?? And do they EVER, EVER stop servicing your car because it's ->not new anymore??!!! DO THEY EVER STOP MAKING ->STEREOS, AND RADAR DETECTORS, AND BABY SEATS, AND BATTERIES?????!!!! ->These ->are all things one can easily expect to find on the market today. So is ->it too much to expect Apple to ->provide support for us??!! >(Must you yell?) it's been a bad week. > Look. If you have an old car. You ca get it serviced. Present some >money, and anything is possible. What makes you think that you >can't get your apple serviced? Just because it's not Apple that services >it doesn't mean anything. When was the last time you had Apple service >your computer? I mean Apple in Cupertino, California, and not an authorized >dealer. So, then, even if Apple doesn't want to help us out, I'm SURE that >we can find other sources of support. User groups, for one, are the >next best thing to having the entire company by your side. I'm a member >of the BCS, the Boston Computer Society. What a great source of knowledge >and skill! I don't need apple if I need help. Organizations such as this >are not going away because they are made up of people just like us who >realize that there is more to owning a computer than complaining that >the company doesn't support a 12 year old machine the way it used to. You're taking me just a bit too literally: I wasn't referring to the actual, physical servicing of a piece of machinery. Maybe service was a bad word. How about just support and commitment? And the problem is also that nothing gets done for a market that's not going anywhere. There's no growth in third party support. If the support strengthened from Apple, third party people wuold do so likewsie. I really really really REALLY REALLY wish people would realize that there is a LOT more to the GS than just a 12 year old relative! The GS is not 12 years old, no matter how you count! Let's try to be a bit more informed. To quote you from the very next article: >I may have to disagree with you there. Apple has not made two machines >and called one the GS and one the Mac. They ARE very different machines. >One is more current than the other, and comes with SCSI built in. Let's all practice saying it ten times slowly: AGE DOESN'T MATTER AGE DOESN'T MATTER AGE DOESN'T MATTER and built in scsi? is that how you distinguish between the computers? :< > -- >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Murphy's Military Laws: >1. Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you are. >---------- Jay Giurleo ------ jayg@wpi.wpi.edu -----jayg@wpi.bitnet ------ seth kadesh the mad scientist@andrew.cmu.edu (sk2f) ^--- this doesn't really work. use this --^ --- - tHe mAd ScienTisT, and other carnations / | /--->(seth kadesh) \ |/a math/cs major in four acts :: Carnegie Mellon University \ |\sk2f+@andrew.cmu.edu -or- P254SK2F@CMCCVB / | \<---Smile. It makes people wonder :-)