Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!violet.berkeley.edu!39clocks
From: 39clocks@violet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: Re: MPW 3.1 update extended indefinitely
Summary: MPW update CD-ROM mayhem
Keywords: MPW, CD-ROM, $
Message-ID: <1990May2.071040.19290@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: 2 May 90 07:10:40 GMT
References: <9033@tank.uchicago.edu>
Sender: (Peter Marinac)
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 68

In article <9033@tank.uchicago.edu> gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>I called up APDA to inquire whether today was the last day for the MPW 3.1
>upgrades.  I was told that the upgrades had been extended indefinitely,
>probably until the _next_ upgrade of MPW came out. 
>
>Thanks Apple!  Now I can pay this month's bills and get my upgrades when my
>finances allow.
My guess is that they were not getting people to upgrade to 3.1 in anywhere
near the numbers that they expected, particularly in the case of "cross
language" upgrades that qualify one to purchase the "Macintosh Programmer's
Workshop Suite" (a value added CD-ROM version of MPW C and Pascal) in the
future.
This is just a guess.  I don't have any numbers to back it up.

I don't know about you, but I think that APDA is going about this MPW Suite
thing the wrong way.  In case you are unfamiliar with the concept, I will
briefly explain it as I understand it.  In Apple's never ending quest to
sell expensive hardware and find a less expensive way of distributing software,
they have decided to release MPW on CD-ROM. The only catch is that you must
own both MPW C and MPW Pascal, presumably because the disc will contain
both of these compilers, to buy the CD.

Now if I am programming in C, why would I want Pascal?  Because I want to
use MPW C++ interfaces to MACAPP so that I can write programs lickity-split
style.  MACAPP, of course, is written in Pascal.  Don't get me wrong, I
think it is great that MPW C++ comes with interfaces to MACAPP and MACAPP is
great (or so I hear), but the real issue here is that there is no comperable
object library available for MPW C++, _yet_!

I wonder how many C programmers out there are going to want buy MPW Pascal
so they can get future MPW upgrades on CD-ROM (at a lower price it appears) and
have access to MACAPP.  And conversly, I wonder how many Pascal programmers
will want to buy the MPW C compiler just to get upgrades on CD-ROM.  Maybe
they have always wanted to tinker with C, but never thought about buying it
before, back when it was reasonably priced (the cost of upgrading to the 
"other" language up until last Feb  28 was $50 ($245 - $195), it now costs
$150.)

Now it looks like a one can save some money buying the CD-ROM versions of
upgrades.  For example, the C/Pascal update costs $100 on floppys and only
$50 on CD, but I'm not sure if this is a clever trick on the part of Apple
or whether reflects the true difference in costs between production and
distribution on the two mediums.

Here's my suggetion, because, yes I do want to buy CD-ROM upgrades and get
all those neat value added goodies that APDA promises to stock the CD with,
but no I don't want to, nor do I think that I should have to, purchase MPW
Pascal (as I prefer C) just for the price of admission.  Put everything that
is part of the MPW environment on the CD-ROM except the C and Pascal compilers,
and the C++ and MACAPP tools.  Each of these could be placed on a separate
disk with their most recent include/header/interface,etc. files, so that 
APDA could continue to sell the languages as separate products.  You want C,
you get a CD and a disk, same with Pascal.  You want C++ or MacApp, you get
a CD and two disks (that's a lot better than 24 disks).

Under this scenario the CD-ROM would serve as the distribution method for
everything that either common to all languages, or that can only be used
if the owner also owns the compiler for the language.  So we're talking
the shell, tools (including Asm and SADE), Rincludes, C library and includes,
C++ files, Pascal libraries, MacApp files, etc., and those nifty value
added goodies.  The MacApp libraries can be built in all the various ways,
debuggin on/off, so that a C++ programmer would have no need for the 
Pascal compiler.  (What's that?, a voice in the distance just told me that
MacApp is not a tool, it's a mass of Pascal source.  That's O.K., CD-ROM
only  needs compiled object files, or library files.)

                                                    Peter