Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!jarthur!usc!ucsd!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!eb1z+ From: eb1z+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward Joseph Bennett) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: NeXT's financial position Message-ID: <4aDVT9q00WBK42aFEa@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: 1 May 90 23:12:09 GMT References: <9009@tank.uchicago.edu> , <579@toaster.SFSU.EDU> Distribution: comp.sys.next Organization: Class of '91, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 190 In-Reply-To: <579@toaster.SFSU.EDU> From: eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) :In article eb1z+@andrew.cmu.edu : (Edward Joseph Bennett) writes: :>-The Next is not revolutionary. It is very innovative but not :>revolutionary in the sense that it completely changes the way people :>interact with and think of computers. What Next has done is bring many :>good features into one box. It has the power of unix and all its :>features. :That's exactly what it's supposed to be. We buy NeXTs :BECAUSE they are good, cost-effective UNIX workstations. :Beginning this fall, "UNIX literacy" will be a degree :requirement for Computer Science majors at SFSU. Anything :else is icing. I think Steve Jobs would take great offense at you implying that his Next machine is nothing more than cost effective unix box. In fact you are really selling the Next short with a statement like that. That however only reinforces my point (which you conviently left out) that this is an advantage that Next had when it came out but which is quickly slipping away. It only emphasizes that Next needs to make their next price/performance leap soon or loose this big selling point. With the high performance cost effective IBM risc seris and rumors of a $5000 Sparc Station 2 this summer will hurt Next. I'm not implying that they aren't doing anything. But a few leaks or some hints would help, otherwise people will start placing thier orders for Sparc Stations, etc. before they here what Next has to offer. :>-Please include a floppy drive. While its not flashy and not visionary :>it is necessary. :This is incredibly narrow-minded thinking. Guess what! :You can buy an external floppy drive from a third party! :Guess what else! You can get a PC clone with TWO floppy :drives and an Ethernet interface for less! Guess which :I'd rather have? Oh Really, I guess it is incredibly narrow minded to want to be able to want to easily be able to import software to my system. I guess it is incredibly narrow minded to not want to drag my floptical disk to my local Next dealer or businessland outlet everytime I want software. I guess its narrow minded to think that not everyone is on a network where they can get the software. I guess it is narrow minded to want to call up a mail order place and order software on my Discover Card (The way I buy most software now). That third party Next floppy drive must be incredible expensive, you can get them for most computers for ~$100-$300. Now I know pc clones are cheap but let's get serious. I don't think it is narrow minded to ask Next to have the option of ordering my cube with a floppy drive. :>- Add color. Two bit grey scale is simply inadequate for a machine that :>wants to be a serious workstation. :Never mind how many 1-bit machines Sun, SGI, DEC, etc. have sold. :I guess they can't be considered serious. Get real. How many of these machines don't have color as an option. Any serious work station should have color as an option. Otherwise you are cutting off a large part of your potential market (Those who do need it). And if you need both color and monochrome you are probably go with one vendor that can supply both such as Sun. Even though you haven't realized this I think Next has and is close to correcting this. :>-I don't like its architecture. You have to have the monitor plugged in :>to run the computer. The way its set up makes third party monitors and :>the like difficuilt. :From a marketing standpoint I wouldn't want to see provision for :third party monitors; when you are trying to portray your product :in the best possible light, you don't want to let schmucks louse :it up. When people around here see the NeXT for the first time, :they invariably make comments about how crisp and clean the :display is. Why NeXT would want you to subvert one of its :hallmarks is beyond me. On the other hand, I would like to be :able to run a "monitorless" cube--as a dedicated NFS server, :for DSP-intense applications, or just as an available CPU on a :network. I can do this on a Sun--just unplug the monitor and :keyboard and serial port A becomes the console. What I need is :a surrogate for the MegaPixel that has the audio ports, volume, :and power controls. Maybe a few other buttons or LEDs for good :measure, but not much else. Maybe you wouldn't want to see a provision for third party monitors. If the Mega Pixel display is what you need (and it is nice) for all machines that's great. If the third party monitors are worse then you don't have to buy them but third party options will allow more people to configure a Next that fits their needs. This will make the Next a more viable and credible machine. Take for instance Next machines in a office. Wouldn't it be nice to have one hooked up to an overhead diplay so that you can give presentations to large number of workers. One can think of lots of situations (including yours of a file server) where a non standard monitor or no monitor at all would be useful. Plus competition will benefit users in the long run. :>- General lack of software and third party hardware ( Only time will :>tell if this gets fixed) :I'm quite happy with what's available now, thank you. Well I'm glad that you are happy. That is probably why you use a Next.The Simply fact is that regardless of how nice a machine is if it doesn't have the software you need, it is worthless and there are many entire potential markets where Next needs software if they are to enter them. :>- Its slow and sluggish :Compared to what? I've found it to provide better response time :than just about anything else we've had here before, and it's :certainly the best in its price range. If I want supercomputer :performance, I have Cray time for the asking. I neither need nor :expect it on a desktop. Once you have your cube attached to a :network, it has very few limitations. I won't argue that it is good for its price range (for now) but it needs more horsepower. I guess my point would be meaningless if everyone had unlimited cray time to network their Next to. But... Just because you don't need or expect more power on the desktop (you have such low expectations ) doesn't mean that many not only need but demand more speed before they can consider the Next. If you really think that Next doesn't need to increase their speed while everybody is you must be out to lunch. While a 25MHz '030 isn't obsolete it is not cutting edge these days. :>Next doesn't have any of the three advantages I feel that would be very :>helpful. :No one's forcing you to buy one. :If you think the Mac is the greatest thing in the world, :buy a Macintosh. If you think IBM is the greatest thing :in the world, you can buy from them too. They've certainly :dumped enough $$$ into CMU to brainwash you into believing :that they're the One Blue Way. You have taken my point out of context. I mention several points that would be helpful to establishing new machines (compatable with standards, revolutionary design, or other product lines to support you during the early years) Since the Next doesn't have any of these adavantages it all the more important for Next to get its next machine out, fix it drawbacks, and give people a hint of where they are heading. This really had nothing to do with what machine I think is greatest or what I would buy. Personally I feel the Cray III is the greatest but... The original question dealt with trying to convince ones boss that Next is a sound investment that will be around a while. I pointing out that Next needs to get out a new machine or hint what their direction is if they hope to convince people they are viable and a sound investment. Just having a visionary machine won't cut. Flame on: Your comment on IBM giving money to CMU really demonstrates your ignorance. Yes IBM does give CMU lots of money (maybe your jealous). However we also recieve sizeble grants from Apple among others. In addition CMU is one of two univerities that own stock in Next. We also wrote the Mach (unix) operating system upon which the Next is based. So you can see we have more of an interest in seeing Next succeed than most people. Anyway the IBM $$$ doesn't penetrate into the student and faculty. This can be seen in the fact that our computer store "sells more Macs II's in a month than They sell of all PS/2 models in a year." (this was last year when the original MacII was the only MacII available, before the x,cx,ci,and fx). It seems the only IBM's that show up in public clusters are one's IBM gives us. We have lots of Sun's and Dec's as workstations and most of the public PC's are Mac's. : -=EPS=- :-- :If more people thought like Ed, we'd still be stuck with punch cards. I don't know. If the people at Next thought like you, they surely would be doomed. It seems as if you are satisfied (25MHz, monochrome, lack of software, etc. are all fine with you) and don't see any need for change or progress. Industry leaders are never satisfied. If you were in charge of the computer industry we probably would still have punch cards It seems as if the Next fits your needs well. That's great. But if Next is to be here 10 years from now they need to make many changes if they are to attract a respectable market share. I'm sure they are working on it. But they need to let the rest of know what their thinking so that people don't sell them out prematurely. Ed