Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!mcnc!thorin!tlab1!oliver
From: oliver@tlab1.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Secret Service's hackers roundup
Message-ID: <14332@thorin.cs.unc.edu>
Date: 28 May 90 18:23:43 GMT
References: <20017@snow-white.udel.EDU> <4012@tahoe.unr.edu> <265c08e3-2081.2comp.sys.amiga-1@tronsbox.UUCP> <24887@usc.edu>
Sender: news@thorin.cs.unc.edu
Reply-To: oliver@tlab1.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver)
Organization: University Of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 70

In article <24887@usc.edu> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes:
>In article <265c08e3-2081.2comp.sys.amiga-1@tronsbox.UUCP> dfrancis@tronsbox.UUCP (Dennis Francis Heffernan) writes:
>>	RE Steve Jackson and the Legion of Doom 
>
>>	The "phone company software" allegedly stolen was a six page text 
>>file on administrative terms used in the 911 network.  It has nothing to do
>>with computer operations, is easily one of the most boring pieces you'll ever
>>find, and I really don't see how a) it could be worth $80,000 and b) someone
>>should go to jail for 30 years for having it.
>
>You fail to mention that part of the stolen property were credit card
>numbers used for purchases. I wonder if you'd feel different if YOUR
>credit card number were stolen.  As far as I am concerned, stealing
>credit card numbers should be treated as any other felony of that
>type.  Crime is crime, no matter what color.
>

Oh, I doubt that you really believe that "crime is crime, no matter
what color."  Do you really equate the political crimes of the 
pro-democracy demonstrators (and they *were* crimes) with serial
murder?  Do you really think that the state is justified in whatever
it decides to do as long as it calls the victim a criminal?

I don't think that folk are saying that what these folk might have 
done (if they are, in fact, found to be guilty of anything at all)
is laudable.  What they are saying is that one shouldn't get away
from the idea that the punishment should fit the crime.  Nor should
the pain inflicted by the investigation be used as a punishment.

The Steve Jackson thing is a perfect case in point.  What, exactly,
is Jackson geing punished for? After all, having his property seized,
having his business disrupted, and having his records searched are
non-trivial things, and constitute a kind of punishment in and of
themselves.

There was a restauranteur here in NC who hired a person to do dishwashing.
The police arrested the man for possession of marijuana, and under
the RICO statutes, seized the employer's business and assets.  The
man could not even hire a lawyer to try to get his business back.
Over a year later, the DEA decided that the fellow had nothing at 
all to do with any crime, and released the property.  Unfortunately, 
with no income, the man had been unable to pay his mortage or 
loans, and had declared bankruptcy.  He lost his business, his home,
his savings, his reputation, and his credit.  He was an innocent man 
completely ruined by the DEA for no good reason.  The DEA was within
the law.  After all, there was a dishwasher there who was a 
user of that evil, albeit harmless, weed marijuana.

The feds, be they the DEA, SS, ATF, or IRS,  are well known for 
having little concern for who they hurt when they after someone.
But that's OK, I suppose; crime is crime, no matter what color.

I suppose it also doesn't matter who gets hurt or how much, as long
as "law and order" prevail.  It doesn't matter how draconian the
law, or how repressive the order.




>>	My sister's part of the same "hacker underground" as these people...
>
>You're in a tough spot for sure to judge.
>


Cheap shot.



Bill Oliver