Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!maytag!watdragon!tiger!gpsteffler
From: gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler)
Subject: Re: Microsoft products
Message-ID: <1990Jun2.055923.11950@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Summary: some info about windows and OS/2 SDK
Keywords: GUI
Sender: daemon@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Owner of Many System Processes)
Organization: University of Waterloo (thats what they think)
References: <1962@mindlink.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 90 05:59:23 GMT
Lines: 125

In article <1962@mindlink.UUCP> a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) writes:
>In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
>gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes:
>
>>independant system which was obviously designed with considerations from
>>all three operating systems.  Obviously a radically different system like
>>the Amiga (and it's lack of many of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties) would
>>present a difficulty.

YIKES!  Did I say that?  I must appologise...pretty darn childish response...

but then again, I was attempting to wake up those sorry Amiga eyes which
haven't seen daylight since they got their hands on the IFF images of
AmigaDOS 2.0 (Absolutely 3gazillion percent better than 1.3 C= !)

>     I should know better than to get dragged into a flame war,
>but I just can't resist...  :-)

Ahhhh...the heart is willing but the mind has superuser status :-)

>     EVERYTHING is ForWindows on the Amiga!  As for Works, do people
>get it because they really want it, or because it's in the bundle?
>(Serious question here - I really don't know the answer.  Percentages
>would help.)

Ulp...er...yea yer right...but I do believe that will change for the
majority of PC (286/386 variety) users in the immediate future.

Word for Windows takes GUI that one extra step...it's called...

	"What You See Is REALLY What You Get and You Get it Good"

So far, the Amiga lacks several key things:

Output to printers that actually looks good.  Programs should NOT have
to have their own postscript support.  Windows 3.0 has excellent output
that is provided by using the same routines that print to the screen
but are simply printed to a printer-device-context as opposed to the
screen-device-context...absolutely painless for the programmer and
you can be damn sure that the output will look good!

>>Given the choice of driving a Jaguar with mouldy seat covers, or a
>>brand new Ford Tempo ... you would probably walk.
>
>     My Reeboks would probably do well during rush hour.  :-)
I guess the fact that my Tempo has a CD car sterio wouldn't change your mind?

>>Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy.  (a change for
>
> Talking about a "zero bugs policy" is rash to the point of
>silliness.  High reliability is an admirable goal, and indeed a

This "zero-bugs" is a goal, not a rule.  Microsoft has in the past 
released software which hadn't been completely tested.  Things
change and I am pleased with the results.  I am not so pleased
with the majority of the software for the Amiga because I seem
to crash and burn often.  Fortunately, I can always rely on good
public domain/free/share soft-ware to get me thru when I am having
troubles with the supposedly full blown commercial package.  I can
no longer afford new software currently, so it looks like
ftp will be doing overtime for me.  :-)

>"change for the better."  But I've worked on enough medium to
>large software projects to be skeptical of anyone who claims
>there can't be some small bugs still lurking somewhere.  Of
>course, you could always define them away: "That's not a bug,
>it's a feature!"

I have worked on several major projects myself (Windows 3.0 and the
Windows 3.0 SDK being the most recent).  I have confidence the
large number (1000+) of beta sights found most of the remaining bugs
in 3.0.

>     However, I do have one more serious question: which of "many
>of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties" are missing from the Amiga?  The

How about an editor for making dialog boxes complete with drop down
combo boxes, list boxes, custom button controls.

How about a Heap Walker (my little babe) which can track the memory`
of a windows session and report all of the information about every
memory hunk...and even display bit maps, show more info on data
segments etc...etc...(it was a fun program to write!)

How about resource files that contain all of the strings, dialogs,
and data resources for a program.  These files allow the menus
to be defined using a CASE like structure, resource strings may
be defined so that the program need not be compiled to change the
wording on an information reply...also allows easy translation
to other languages.  All of the resources are loaded either when
first needed, or on program startup.  This is very advantageous
for low memory situations.

How about all of this stuff available from one place, with an 
online service and trained staff.  I am definately impressed
with the network of support for Windows developers out there!

I would have to say that Windows programming is much easier than
Amiga programming partially because Windows handles many of the mundane
things like memory (eg. dynamic link libraries, virtual memory,
resources that are loaded automatically on call etc) and 
user input that are tiresome to code.  I enjoy programming in an
environment that generally makes applications conform to a standard.

>Mac is a "radically different system" yet they managed to cope.
>I haven't gotten into either Windows or OS/2 and am curious.
>(If they're significant, maybe Commodore should be curious too.)

Microsoft originally wrote a layer for the MAC that provided the needed
functionality for Excel...killer app from hell that it is.

This layer eventually evolved into the common layer which Excel
is now built around.  It would be a very formidable task to add
the Amiga to this list (Windows,MAC,OS/2).

>Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP
>For every vision there is an equal and opposite revision.

Hope this helps.

----
Co-Op Scum

gpsteffl@sunee.waterloo.edu	gpsteffl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Glenn Patrick Steffler		Windows 3.0 - GUI for the GOOIE