Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!metro!cluster!ultima!vilkas From: vilkas@ultima.cs.uts.oz (Iron Wolf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech Subject: Re: Game vs Multitasking Message-ID: <17866@ultima.cs.uts.oz> Date: 30 May 90 02:16:23 GMT References: <1990May29.053417.4690@cbnewsm.att.com> Organization: Comp Sci, NSWIT, Australia Lines: 148 nsw@cbnewsm.att.com (Neil Weinstock) writes: >>Mikko "Assembler rules OK!" Tsokkinen writes: >[ ... ] >>1. Should game be HD-installable? >> - IMHO I think this is quite useless because many HD drivers eat chip-memory > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> and you will run out of it especially on 512k chip-ram machines. And you >> can make Disk-based routines lot more faster and more data in one disk >> which helps people without HD. >Useless is a relative term. I can assure you that any hard disk owner wants >to install everything on the hard disk. If those with 512K chip-ram can't >do it cuz of memory constraints, that's probably reasonable, those folks can >still run it off the floppy. But why should those with 1M chip-ram and HD >be forced to use a floppy? >I hardly *ever* use my floppy for other than installing software, and perfer >to keep it that way. Good for you but when you are blasting a games designer with these statements you have to examine the reality of the matter and his point of view as well. Now...if you have a DMA SCSI HD you need a buffer in CHIP ram...am I corect? (I am not real sure but I assume this is true). Also....a VERY large number of the type of people who BUY these games, the MARKET, don't have a HD, and quite a few only have 512k. Now unless we want to make the cost of development increase by having the programmers write variations for hard drives, extra memory and so on, we should be content that in general, the games that are written actually WORK on most Amiga configurations. >[ ... ] >>4. Should game be exitable? >> - IMHO exitable games are harder to protect and you can't destroy anything >> in memory and you will end up again without enough memory:-( >Aarrrgh. I don't like to reboot, period. I don't see why I should have to >just for a stupid game. >Look at it this way. Nowadays, the degree of system friendliness of a game >is my top consideration when deciding on a purchase. It didn't use to be >that way. I bought several games of the boot-from-the-floppy-then-reboot >variety, then found out that I never play any of them because I can't stand >the routine. I've logged more hours playing the version of Tetrix posted >to the binaries group than all my other games combined. Why? Because it's >right there, nice and convenient (also addictive as hell, but that's >another story ;-). >On the one hand, we all talk about how the Amazing-Amiga-Is-The-Only- >Computer-With-True-Multitasking, then go and write and buy these games that >torpedo the whole concept. Blech. >I wonder how many people would play rogue if you had to load it in from >9-track tape every time, then restart Unix afterwords? Lets not bring up a stupid comparison, UNIX is a lot more cumbersome that AmigaDos, and I wonder if you realise how much piracy costs the game industry? If the programmers start saying: "Sure, run a cli - make an image of the memory" we will find very few commercial quality programs coming out on the market as they will be easily available in pirated form. Every effort should be made to insure the integrity of the software and the security of it. Now...if we want games to multitask...we dont want security...we dont want fast flashy games....we want lots of system overhead when writing simple routines....we want somewhat inconsistent reaction times. Well Well if this is what you want...take a look; you already have it PD & shareware is what is viable for such demands. The quality is generally poorer the cost is much less. You want multitasking, well you can get it. I'll stick with quality and performance. And the only way to get consistent performance is to shut off any interference. You may find yourself a little different to the average consumer who freaks if his arcade qonversion doesn't have all the screens of the original...isn't as fast, or is too jerky, hasnt got the same quality graphics. To accomodate the people who buy their favourite conversions and variations and spinoffs the games programmers have to optimise their code and optimise the system performance. All this involves shortcuts and the like. The programmers have to cram their code and graphics in (just because some people have 3M doesnt mean the people with 512k will be happy...we have to cater to the market) they have to make their code FAST on a stock-standard amiga. Just because a 68030 wouldn't blink about running the same thing using the OS, the mjority of us only have 16bits and 7MHz..we are the main market. >> And I would like also to know how many of you people really play games while >>doing something else? If you do, do you really like those every now and then >>updating games with poor graphics (thanks to memory shortage). >"friendly" and "nasty" mode, anyway? If I want to tolerate slower operation >in order to be able to download while playing (for example), that's my >business. As for memory, your argument falls apart once you consider the >existence of machines with more than 512K chip RAM. You're going to tell me >that on an A3000 with 2 Meg of chip and 16 Meg of fast RAM, your game is >going to encounter *any* memory restrictions at all? You are right , but if the majority of the market doesn't tolerate the slower games...that's the programmer's living! You're argument falls apart where you point out that there are machines such as the A3000 and 1Mb & 2Mb Amiga's. The majority of Amiga's out there are A500's with 512k or at most 1Mb, one..maybe two drives. Adn as such, there is what the programmer's MUST cater for to achieve maxmimum market penetration and sales. The games MUST have protection to discourage piracy and the games must follow the dictates of what the majority of consumers want. As the market changes, so will the games..already many games require 1Mb and even the European games (which are the majority of good games) are beginning to notice that second disk drive stuck onto the machines instead of saying "please insert disk 2". So the message gets through and the direction changes. So in a speculative future where the A750 with 68020 & 1Mb chip mem with two drives is the basic model...we will see a lot of the things you are talking about but we will also see a lot of games that are written in the same way as todays games with more features better performance etc. The only way that your gripes will be picked up by the programmer's is if the majority of the market started feeling the same way. The main point to remember is that the industry is geared towards the consumer and will produce what he wants to see (or more correctly what he is willing to pay for) So get some support and shake the foundations (I would support you if I could still get games with the same performance etc.) >Just one paying customer's opinion... > - Neil >--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-- >Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs // What was sliced bread >att!edsel!nsw or nsw@edsel.att.com \X/ the greatest thing since? Not meaning to be personal but just trying to point out a view from a different angle....IMHO what you say has merit..but I am trying to stress arguments to the contrary...and what it all really comes down to is the cold hard green stuff - MONEY! c u Iron Wolf