Xref: utzoo comp.sys.mac.system:380 comp.sys.mac.apps:369 comp.unix.questions:22431 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!ipso!appleoz!ksand From: ksand@appleoz.oz.au (Kent Sandvik) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps,comp.unix.questions Subject: Re: MacIDRIS? Message-ID: <1179@appleoz.oz.au> Date: 24 May 90 08:25:44 GMT References: <1990May11.162553.6946@gtisqr.uucp> <90.140.19:17:53@smurf.sub.org> Reply-To: ksand@appleoz.oz.AU (Kent Sandvik) Organization: Cyberspace Networking Group, Apple Lines: 114 urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes in article <90.140.19:17:53@smurf.sub.org>: : In comp.sys.mac.apps, article <1990May11.162553.6946@gtisqr.uucp>, : karl@gtisqr.UUCP (Karl Lunt) writes: : UNIX? Sorry, it's IDRIS. They munged, for sake of uniformity, brevity, or : compatibility, most of the standard commands. ..hmm, a lot of flame, poor Idris, it's not that bad... : - Compatibility means that they're compatible to their other IDRIS products, : not to Unix. Actually POSIX... : - Commands means that if you tell their "ed" to print a lines, then it will do : so. If that line has a form-feed character in the middle so that the screen : gets cleared when printing and you don't have a chance to see what is there, : then so be it. (No, no "od" either.) OK, I'll send this in as a bug report to the developer, thx. : I began to have serious doubts about this as soon as I got the package, which : included _five_ 800k disks. You can't put a serious OS, library code, compiler, and standard utilities onto 4 MB without sacrificing something. Idris : sacrifices a lot. As some of us know Whitesmiths Idris is wellknown to pack down the size of the UNIX kernel and the utilities to a small binary size... : < 1. How is the IDRIS executive (and all executing sub-processes) : < protected if you leave the IDRIS environment and spend some time running : < (for example) MacPaint, then return to IDRIS? : < : It isn't. Without a MMU, you can't. It's just a Multifinder process among : others. It actually makes use of the PMMU if it exists in the system. But due to the nature it is a pure MF proc, and that is the beaty, you could run it on a Mac Plus or other non-A/UX hardware. And in the new release you could cut-paste between apps as well as run cron and uucp jobs in the background. : < 2. In the above event, what happens to any time-scheduled tasks that : < should have been executed when MacPaint was running? Do they launch at : < the proper time anyway? Do they not launch and are lost? Are they : < checkpointed, then all fire at once when you restart (reselect) IDRIS? : < : What's scheduling? Unix proper doesn't even have it, and you wonder about : MacIdris? Idris has scheduling, and depending on the background mix the processes under MacIdris gets timeslices. Actually the scheduling even supports real-time extensions... : < 3. Exactly how much like UNIX is IDRIS, from a user's point of view? : < What utilities are missing, and why? I noticed that 'sed' did not : < appear in their list of supported utilities. : < : If you mean by "utilities" a piece of object code which behaves like the : corresponding piece of code on any Unix box at all, then by definition all : utilities are missing. It does not even have a shell which would behave even : remotely like /bin/sh. See above. The new release will have a Bourne shell, many GNU project utilities, and yes, vi. : Given that the compiler is useless because it doesn't even know the difference : between a warning and an error, and sort of muddles the distinction between : declaring and defining a procedure, I didn't bother to check for speed. : See my comment on standardization above, expand to header file names, : contents, and names of libraries. Actually I'm personally impressed with the ANSI C compliant, optimizing compiler. A lot of people have complained about weird file names and weird utilities, and that's what you get when you try to conform to POSIX :-). We did some benchmarks with the C compiler under A/UX and the code quality was in the same level as gcc. : First, you need an editor. No vi. They have some sort of MicroEmacs which I : didn't want to bother with. Some people like vi, some emacs.... : No Mac screen support like "mouse" or "scroll bars". Yes. : No manual pages on disk, and precious few on paper (they cost extra). The manual pages will be supplied on HyperCard. : < 6. Does MacIDRIS support multi-users through the serial port? : < : I don't know. Yes. : I sent them a two-page letter with all the problems I have with their stuff : carefully listed (the above is about half of that). No reply to date, and that : was over half a year ago. : The actual developers are supposed to be located in Australia anyway. This may : or may not have anything to do with the main problem, which is that the : money I paid for MacIdris was basically wasted. If you want to send the bug reports straight to the developer, send email to john@wsa.oz.au, or AUST0282@applelink.apple.com, I'm sure John is interested to hear about any problems with the product. He could also tell more about new stuff in MacIdris. I don't think that the location of a product has to do anything with local support in Germany... Regards, Kent Sandvik -- Kent Sandvik -- Apple Australia Developer Tech Support {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!appleoz.oz!ksand, ksand@appleoz.oz.au (OR ksand@apple.com) AppleLink: AUSTAUX Disclaimer: "Apple does not sell my opinions"