Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Fatima, Portugal, 1917 Message-ID: Date: 29 May 90 06:15:38 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 59 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu >From article , by ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Carl T. Donath): >Status: RO > >> Pardon my ignorance, but I know very little about this Fatima thing (thanks >> the one who posted its history). I have a few problems with what Mary is >> supposed to have said during her appearances. >> To a certain extent ... this can also be said of the Catholic Church too. Apparitions aren't instantly authenticated. By no means actually! Witness the Marjegorie contraversy. But the Catholic Church clearly recognizes that authentic apparitions can occur. Why would it believe so? There are better people to explain this, but here is a fairly simple explanation ... apparitions clearly occured throughout Biblical times. At times God himself would materialize (the burning bush, and cloud of fire and smoke that led the Hebrews out of Egypt). Sometimes God would send messengers like the Angel Gabriel, who appeared from time to time throughout the whole of the Biblical era. Moses and Elijah appeared during the Transfiguration. Christ appeared to his followers several times after his death ... perhaps most significantly in this discussion to Paul on the road to Damascus *after* Christ's Ascension into Heaven, and *after* the coming down of the gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church. God clearly has chosen to invervene in human events, and clearly has chosen to do so in a number of ways. ******************* Why Mary? In a sense ... why not? Clearly, she left a major mark on the early Christians. Even in the Bible, she is depicted as having been a present in the early Church, present at Pentacost, present with the Apostles, present. The earliest artwork which survives from the Christian era, is full of depictions of Mary, Mary and the Apostles, each individual Apostle, the Evangelists, the risen Christ, and so on. Boulderdash ... but it clearly shows that Mary had a special respect even in the earliest days of the Church. ********************* But back to the apparitions. Basically, the Catholic Church believes that miraculous signs are possible ... It's really not unlike the Pentacostalist who believes that the Holy Spirit can allow someone speak in tongues and others understand what that person is saying. Now think about it ... what is the person speaking in tongues saying? Does his/her speaking in tongues violate the view that in the Bible revelation is complete? Paul talks about people receiving the gift of being able to speak the languages of angels. Those kids in Fatima and perhaps in Margegorie were given the gift of being able to speak with Mary. dennis kriz@skat.usc.edu ------------------------------------------