Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!dali.cs.montana.edu!ming.cs.montana.edu!icsu8053 From: icsu8053@ming.cs.montana.edu (Craig Pratt) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Call for Device Independant Output, file format and user-interface standards on the Amiga Keywords: standards user-interface output graphics device independant Message-ID: <2059@dali> Date: 7 Jun 90 11:19:51 GMT References: <1990May26.065525.1415@watserv1.waterloo.edu> <1866@corpane.UUCP> Sender: news@dali.cs.montana.edu Organization: Montana State University, Dept. of Computer Science, Bozeman MT 59717 Lines: 113 In article <1866@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >pdbeam@watserv1.waterloo.edu (T.C.) writes: > >>Standards >>------------------------------------------------------- > >> I've recently purchased an Amiga 2000 and I've owned an >>Atari ST for four years. I am still blown away by Amiga >>hardware (wow! you mean some machines have more than ONE >>expansion slot?) and Amiga graphics (except for interlace >>mode which really sucks) but there are still some things I >>had on my Atari that I miss on my Amiga: device-independent >>output, standardized (and IBM compatible) file formats, and a >>consistent user-interface across programs. I believe these > > >> Device independent output means that whatever image I >>create on the screen will print out in the MAXIMUM resolution >>of my printer. Compare the output of any non-postscript >>Amiga DTP to the output of any non-postscript Atari GEM DTP >>on the same device and you'll see what I mean. (Come on, not >>all of us can afford laser printers!). It also means that >>the object graphics I create in Easy Draw or Calamus Draw or >>CAD3D or Word-Up or WordFlair or VIP (spreadsheet) or Touch- >>Up will print out in maximum resolution. What's more, all of > > >> The ST also has standard file formats for raster and >>object images and fonts. This means that virtually any image >>(even a full 8x11 page of text) can be created in one program >>and loaded into another. Because these formats also exist on >>the IBM I can do stuff at home and take it in for use on the >>PCs at work. I can have line-art in my word-processor files > >Where have you been? The Amiga has all this and has always had it. > >Printer support is not dependent on the programs, they OS talks to >you printer thru a device driver with a generic printer device that all >programs can talk to. Like a translator. Just use preferences to tell >the OS which printer you want to use, the resolution of the printer >(makes it resolution independent, which is what you meant anyway, not >device independent). > >The Amiga has very standard file formats, known as IFF (interchange file >format)for animation, sound, and graphics files. Draw something in one program >and load it into another, and all that. Sheesh! IBM doesn't do that. But some >programs on the IBM can read in Amiga file formates, notabley Deluxe Paint on >the IBM. And I can use and convert several IBM formats into GIF files which >I can convert into IFF files on my Amiga. Heck I even think the ST uses IFF >doesn't it? No, the ST doesn't "use" IFF, but some programs (Degas Elite) will load and save IFF, but this is not the subject. What the previous poster (T.C.) was referring to is the device-independant nature of GDOS. GDOS applications use device-independant calls to do such things as set font typeface/size/ appearance, set margins, set colors/pens, change linetype, set fill patterns, and the drawing of circles, lines, arcs etc. It is up to the device driver for the screen, printer, file, or , to render these commands to the best of its abilities. Once a printer and screen configuration(s) are installed, any GDOS application can easily direct its output to the device. These device-independant commands can be directed to a file (GEM MetaFile). This file may then be imported into graphic editors, desktop publishers or whatever and scaled, rotated and modified without loss of resolution because the objects are not mapped to a raster image until display/print time. From what I understand of IFF graphic images, thay are pure raster images. If they allow for vector graphics, it's news to me and it must be news to all the Amiga developers out there. Any AmigaDOS application which wishes to print high-quality hard copy is on its own; the printer device driver, as it currently exists, will be of little help. Each application has to know how to render its graphics onto the display as well as the many printer types that may be used with the program. This limits the flexability of the program to adapt to different displays and printers. In many ways, this is the same problem you face in MS-DOS world except you also have to support many different displays AND pointing devices. Talk about a serious nightmare! A good example of the benefits of device-independant graphics are illustated in QuickDraw on the Macintosh. Nowadays, a Mac program can be run on everything from a lowly Mac SE with a monochrome 320x200 display to a MacIIfx with a 24-bit color 720x640 monitor. It supports 32-bit color and can support almost every resolution. The next version of QuickDraw is going to support outline fonts as well. Although, the number of printers that QuickDraw currently supports seems rather limited. I have only seen LaserWriters and ImageWriters used with Macs. Of course, the best example of a device-independant environment would have to be X-windows but I believe that the limit of a news article is around 45k, so I digress. :^> The point of all this rambling is that it's pretty silly/stupid to believe that all is hunky-dorey (sp?) in Amiga land. I would only hope that Commadore is working to resolve the hard copy situation. I would assume that the above-mentioned features are a requirement for a media station. And for you overly-defensive computer worshippers out there: DO NOT restart The Wars, alright? I'm not going to be here to see it if they do. I'm just attempting to pound a few of the kinks out of the facts. > > >-- >John Sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 2400bps. Accessable via Starlink (Louisville KY) >sparks@corpane.UUCP | | PH: (502) 968-DISK >A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of. - Ogden Nash Craig -- / Craig Pratt / Montana State University, Bozeman MT/ / Craig.Pratt@msu3.oscs.montana.edu / " Practically odor-free! " / /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ / "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Reagan, 1988 Republican Convention /