Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rice!sun-spots-request From: purtill@bourbaki.mit.edu (Mark Purtill) Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun Subject: Re: Sparcstation SLC (Sun 4/20) Keywords: Hardware Message-ID: <8462@brazos.Rice.edu> Date: 4 Jun 90 17:09:41 GMT Sender: root@rice.edu Organization: Sun-Spots Lines: 219 Approved: Sun-Spots@rice.edu X-Refs: Original: v9n185, Replies: v9n192 X-Sun-Spots-Digest: Volume 9, Issue 195, message 7 A while back I asked a few questions about the Sparc SLC, and promised a summary if there was interest. Two people asked for the summary, so I claim there is interest, so here it is, along with selected answers from various people. Thanks to everyone who responded. ^me> 1. Can the SLC be used as a standalone machine or does it need ^me> something else as a disk server? (If the answer to this is that it ^me> can't stand alone, the remaining questions are moot). I realize it ^me> comes diskless, but I'm assuming that disks can be added to the SCSI ^me> port. Summary: Yes, the SLC can be used standalone if a disk is added. From: khb@Eng.Sun.COM (Keith Bierman - SPD Advanced Languages) | Yes. And if you order a SCSI disk at the same time as the SLC the disk | comes preformatted and loaded with SunOS 4.1 I am told. From: John.Chadwick@West.Sun.COM (John Chadwick - Sun San Francisco SE) | It can be standalone if equipped with disk, just like an SS1. Disks, tapes | CD-ROM and Exabyte can be added to the SCSI port. From: Steve Simmons | Yes, I have seen it running as such. ^me> 2. Will Sun sell one to an ordinary mortal? If not, are there Sun ^me> dealers out there who would? Summary: Yes and yes. From: John.Chadwick@West.Sun.COM (John Chadwick - Sun San Francisco SE) | Yes, anyone with money (:->. If your local sales office is underwhelmed | with the idea, they will refer you to a local dealer. I work in the San | Francisco sales office and people call up daily asking to buy one or two | systems. We are very happy for the business. The only exception is when | a person wants us to do massive benchmarking or similar exercises for | minimal revenue. From: roberto@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu (Roberto Gomez) | Let your fingers do the walking... Call 1-800-USA-4-SUN and follow | directions, or check with your local dealer. You'll probably end up | paying list price, though. But I'm just guessing. From: Mike Liveright @ VERITY | I think that sun will sell to anyone. You may need to supply the | money up front so that they dont have to bother about credit. | I strongly suggest that you try to convince them that you are | developing code and "qualify" for a catalist discount. It may take longer | than you want, but it is QUITE VALUABLE. From: pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul Graham) | Yes, but you might have some problem. Eakins and ERI both sell Suns. ^me> 3. Does it come with SunOS? If so, how is it supplied? How are new ^me> versions of the updgrade handled? If there's anyone out there who ^me> uses a stand-alone Sun of any type, do you get useful support from ^me> Sun, or do they only care about large-network customers? Summary: The SLC comes with a license to use SunOS, but not media or docs. Updates and support are available if you pay for them. From: Larry.Wake@West.Sun.COM (Larry Wake - SE Sun SFValley - 818-905-0200) | The usual ways -- if you buy it w/the 104 Meg "lunchbox" drive, it | comes with SunOS 4.1 preloaded. If not, you can buy the OS | distribution on 1/4" tape, 1/2" tape, floppy, or CD-ROM. In fact, you | should do this even if you *do* buy the disk. Support is one thing | that is rather expensive for "mortals," alas, but if you can afford it, | you should definitely go on software maintenance. This gets you phone | support via the 800 line, and upgrades to the OS as they become | available. The 800 line doesn't really know whether you own 1 SLC or | 200 490's; you'll get the same service as any customer at the support | level you contract for (JPL, for example, pays to have a software and | hardware engineer onsite full time, so yes, they'll get slightly better | service; but if you contract and pay the same as they do, you can have | that at *your* house, too :-). From: John.Chadwick@West.Sun.COM (John Chadwick - Sun San Francisco SE) | It comes with a two-user right-to-use license for SunOS, and a small starter | documentation set (Owner's Set). A copy of the media is $350, and a full | set of documents (with binders) is $600. From: Steve Simmons | Surely you jest. Almost no-one gets useful support from Sun. From: Mike Liveright @ VERITY | We have a small shop, 10 or so, but I have never have the impression that | SUN knows/cares as to our size... I like their suport, and recently they | have the people to respond in a resonably timely manner... From: pbg@cs.brown.edu (Peter Galvin) | I don't think so. You have to buy a separate software maintenance | contract, but they are cheap at this point (unless you want manuals). From: steve@umiacs.UMD.EDU (Steve D. Miller) | I don't know whether the 104MB Desktop Storage Modules come preloaded | with SunOS. If not, and probably even if it does (since the preloaded | system is pretty basic), you'll need a distribution tape or CD. I've | heard some real horror stories with some individuals who've bought Suns | and then tried to buy software having trouble (like a year's worth of | trouble!) getting Sun to ship to them. That could be a purely local | problem. ^me> 4. Someone mentioned a CD-ROM drive available, along with a CD-ROM ^me> containing SunOS. Can this be mounted as a file system, and if so ^me> would that save disk space? Summary: It can be mounted, but it's not clear whether you can use it (the SunOS CD-Rom) as a /usr disk or not (some say yes, some say no). From: John.Chadwick@West.Sun.COM (John Chadwick - Sun San Francisco SE) | Yes it can be mounted, and it's a good way to save disk space if the data | you want is available on CD-ROM. We're hoping to have SunOS on CD-ROM | "real soon", as they say in Marketing departments. From: ekrell@ulysses.att.com | No, this is a SunOS distribution CD for installing SunOS on your hard | disk. It's intended to replace the cartridge, 9-track and floppies media | Sun has been shipping SunOS on. From: Mike Liveright @ VERITY | I have asked and the CD-ROM is probably not a system disk. Thus you | probably have to copy from it. I am not sure about that, but I realy doubt | if you can run UNIX from a read only media... From: pbg@cs.brown.edu (Peter Galvin) | Yes, and yes, but it would be slow compared to the local disk. | That's actually an interesting thought...get a CDROM for $999 and a | 100MB disk and you have a pretty nice package. I'll have to look into | it! From: pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul Graham) | Yes, it can be mounted. I believe that you could mount /usr read-only | from the CD but maybe not. It would be rather slow. From: steve@umiacs.UMD.EDU (Steve D. Miller) | Sun sells a CDROM for $995 list, and it works with the SLC. If you buy | before sometime in August, they throw in a 4.1 distribution CD. It is a | filesystem -- albeit a High Sierra filesystem --, but while you can mount | it, and you can even boot it, you can't run off it (i.e., use it as /usr) | indefinitely. ^me> 5. What's available in the way of cheap backup devices, e.g., tape ^me> drives or even floppies? Summary: Forget floppies. Tape drives are available. They can be cheap or not. From: John.Chadwick@West.Sun.COM (John Chadwick - Sun San Francisco SE) | Well, floppies would take just about forever, but the 150-Mb cartridge | tape (or third-party equivalent) is what most people use. It's fairly | inexpensive and reliable, if cleaned occasionally. From: ekrell@ulysses.att.com | Sun sells a desktop 150MB quarter inch tape drive. You can get the same | drive from third parties for less $$. From: Steve Simmons | You have to beat the bushes. A friend bought a batch of used QIC-625 (?) | (approx 500MB) drives for $350 each and sold me one (sorry, they're gone). | They have an imbedded SCSI controller. Try the back pages of PC Week, | especially the used/refurb equipment brokers. This is also a good place | to get cheap disk -- last week there were ~300MB maxtors for $600. From: pbg@cs.brown.edu (Peter Galvin) | I don't know of external floppy drives, but streaming tapes are | possible. Call any of the 3rd party hardware places listed in | something like Unix Today! or Sun Observer (or let me know and I'll | give you the phone numbers). From: pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul Graham) | Either, but not from Sun. ^me> 6. How much do the SIMMs that it takes go for? I gather these are 4 ^me> megabytes with parity. Summary: The SIMMs used are funny and currently only available from Sun, where they list at $1450/4Megs. Apparently you can get them for substantial discounts, tho. From: John.Chadwick@West.Sun.COM (John Chadwick - Sun San Francisco SE) | I'm only aware of Sun pricing, which is $1450 for 4Mb of 4Mb SIMMs. | The system comes standard with 8Mb, which is enough for many people. From: ekrell@ulysses.att.com | We can get them for about $550 (discounted). From: roberto@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu (Roberto Gomez) | About $1,450 for 4 Mbytes. The local sales critter claims that existing | third party memory won't work, because of the little boards they used to | cram the 4 Mbyte SIMMS in a small space, hence you'd be stuck on buying | from SUN, for now. From: pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul Graham) | I don't know (but I should). The simms are 1x36 (includes parity) and | currently are only available from Sun. From: steve@umiacs.UMD.EDU (Steve D. Miller) | I don't remember what the SIMMs go for, but they're nonstandard SIMMs from | what we heard at our meeting. I don't think they're yet available from | third-party folks, though I doubt they'll take long to reverse-engineer... Other comments: From: Mike Liveright @ VERITY | p.s. I think that many of the questions can be answered by phoning SUN | directly. It will also give you a chance to see if you feel that | they will treat you as a person... Someone else: | You might be able to qualify for a developer program... if you cobble | up a suitable story (something about building a sw product). If so, | you can get a good deal on a whole hw/sw package from Sun. Of course, | I never said any of this (so remove my name before reposting!). Thanks again to all who responded. I hope none of you feel slighted by what I chose not to quote from your articles! ^me> Mark Purtill ^me> ^.-.^ purtill@math.mit.edu (if that fails, try: purtill@athena.mit.edu) ^me> ((")) \@_: Dept. of Math., MIT 2-229, Cambridge, MA 02139; (617)623-6238