Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!clyde.concordia.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sola Scriptura Message-ID: Date: 5 Jun 90 03:22:43 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston -- Department of Mathematics Lines: 104 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I agree with C. Wingate; the problem with 'liberal' protestants is not that they have denied tradition, it is that they have abandoned 'Sola Scriptura' (Not to mention Sola Gratia and Sola (What's the word for faith? Fide?). Too msny are committing Adam's sin: substituting their own sense of 'right and wrong' for God's revelation. You can't criticize modern day advocates of the three Sola's (principally confessional Lutherans, IMHO) for the errors of those who have abandoned that confessional standard (including, regrettably, some who still call themselves Lutheran). How many churches are adding 'experience' to scripture? How many are implicitly adding 'science', or 'psychology'? How many pick and choose scripture to fit the fashion of the age? We might pose another question: what's wrong with tradition as a source of truth, and what gross errors has tradition led the Roman church into? Scripture actually warns us against substituting tradition for the revealed truth of God. Here are a few examples: Ezek. 20:18,19 : "Do not follow the statutes of your fathers or keep their laws or defile yourselves with their idols. I an the Lord your God; follow my decreees and be careful to keep my laws." Col 2:8,9 "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ" Col 2: 16,17 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." Matthew 15: 1-9 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, "why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat! Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These people honor me with their lips, but thier hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' " What principle should we draw from this last passage? Don't nullify the Scriptures with tradition! Joe Buehler will claim that RC tradition does not nullify scripture. We might debate that. Certainly in Luther's day the church had pretty much forgotten scripture, the gospel, and grace. The whole religion of the church had degenerated into traditions and rules. In the Augsburg confession, Article 20, the Lutherans confessed: " Our teachers have been falsely accused of forbidding good works. Their writings on the Ten Commandments, and others of like import bear witness that they have taught to good purpose about all stations and duties of life, indicating what manners of life and what kinds of work are pleasing to God in the several callings. Concerning such things preachers used to teach little. Instead, they urged childish and needless works,such as particular holy days, prescribed fasts, brotherhoods, pilgrimages, services in honor of saints, rosaries, monasticism, and the like. Since our adversaries have been admonished about these things, they are now unlearning them and do not preach about such unprofitable works as much as formerly. They are even beginning to mention faith, about which there used to be marvelous silence. They teach that we are justified not by works only, but conjoining faith with works they say that we are justified by faith and works. This teaching is more tolerable than the former one, and it can afford more consolation than their old teaching." I suppose one could say that this only describes a departure from tradition, or a 'moral failure'; however Luther & co. clearly believed that this departure or failure resulted from relying on tradition and neglecting Scripture. When he tried to take corrective action, the church pounced on him, which certainly confirmed him in this belief. A tradition that says "We are right because we are the church, and we have always done things this way" and which then re-interprets scripture to fit the errors that tradition has propagated, is extremely dangerous. (I might add that all churches, yes, even Lutherans, are susceptible to to this error!) Yes, one can argue that no church council ever codified the worst moral and doctrinal failures of the church, and that Trent corrected the failures and returned the church to its proper tradition. But as Lutherans see it, Trent confirmed the church in a number of errors, and actually codified some that had not been codified previously. Particularly, I believe Trent was the first council to assert that church tradition was to be considered equally with scripture? But I'm not sure. "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth." 1 Tim 4: 1-3. "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He opposes and exalts himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, and even sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." 2 Thessalonians 3,4 I mention this last passage because it is clear evidence that the AntiChrist will (or has) appear(ed) within the church. Without pointing fingers, or trying to identify some person or institution as the AntiChrist, let us simply be warned that the voice of tradition might be the voice of AntiChrist. Observance of tradition can be a fine thing, but let us not bind consciences with it. Do not nullify the word of God with tradition. David H. Wagner A confessional Lutheran My opinions and beliefs are not likely to coincide with any held by The University of Houston