Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: cms@dragon.uucp Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Justification by Faith (was: The New Revised Standard, just out!) Message-ID: Date: 9 Jun 90 03:34:27 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Projects Unlimited Lines: 79 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , gevans@oiscola.columbia.ncr.com (GKEvans) writes: > In article cms@dragon.uucp writes: > I have only addressed a tangent to your question about justification > by faith, but my comment is: agape love seems impossible at times for me, > so thank God he has no trouble loving us that way. > > Here is an interesting tidbit for the group: > > In John 21 Jesus asks Peter 3 times: "do you love me?" and Peter > responds each time "you know I love you." The part that gets lost > in English is that the first 2 times Jesus uses the verb AGAPO, and > the 3rd time he uses the verb PHILEO (a more brotherly, familial > love). All 3 times, however, Peter answers with PHILEO - even when > Jesus uses AGAPO. You got my curiosity up on this one. I checked this out in both Vine's and my Greek-English lexicon. First the lexicon: "Though some persons have tried to assign certain significant differences of meaning between [agapo and phileo] it does not seem possible to insist upon a contrast of meaning in any and all contexts. For example, the usage in Jn 21.15-17 seems to reflect simply a rhetorical alternation designed to avoid undue repetition. There is, however, one significant clue to possible meaningful differences in at least some contexts, namely, the fact that people are never commanded to love one another with [phileo] but only with [agapo]. Though the meanings of these terms overlap considerably in many contexts, there are probably some significant differences in certain contexts; that is to say, [phileo is] likely to focus upon love or affection based upon interpersonal association, while [agapo focuses] upon love and affection based on deep appreciation and high regard. On the basis of this type of distinction, one can understand some of the reasons for the use of [agapo] in commands to Christians to love one another. It would, however, be quite wrong to assume that [phileo refers] only to human love, while [agapo refers] to divine love. Both sets of terms are used for the total range of loving relations between people, between people and God, and between God and Jesus Christ." Vine's tends to make a greater distinction; it concentrates more on agapo's usage as divine love. It's basically in agreement that phileo is never used in a command to love God. On John 21, they part ways: For the same passage, Vine's comments: The distinction between the two verbs finds a conspicuous instance in the narrative of John 21:15-17. The context itself indicates that agapao in the first two questions suggests the "love" that values and esteems (cf. Rev. 12:11). It is unselfish "love," ready to serve. The use of phileo in Peter's answers and the Lord's third question, conveys the thought of cherishing the Object above all else, of manifesting an affection characterized by constancy, from the motive of the highest veneration....Again, to 'love' (phileo) life, from an undue desire to preserve, forgetful of the real object of living, meets with the Lord's reproof, John 12:25. On the contrary, to 'love' life (agapao), as used in 1 Pet. 3:10, is to consult the true interests of living. Here the word phileo would be quite inappropriate." I found this very interesting. I'm no scholar but I think I may take a closer look at the two words invariably translated "love" in more Biblical passages. I'm genuinely curious as to which love is meant in various contexts, but that might be quite an undertaking, and, as the lexicon suggests, may be no more than our difference between "house" and "home." The difference between house and home could fill a page of a lexicon, but pages of a sociologist's dictionary. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gary K. Evans, Software type |"Come now, and let us reason together..." > gevans@oiscola.columbia.ncr.com | (Isa. 1:18) -- Sincerely, _///_ // SPAWN OF A JEWISH _///_ // _///_ // <`)= _<< CARPENTER _///_ //<`)= _<< <`)= _<< _///_ // \\\ \\ \\ _\\\_ <`)= _<< \\\ \\ \\\ \\ <`)= _<< >IXOYE=('> \\\ \\ \\\ \\_///_ // // /// _///_ // _///_ // emory!dragon!cms <`)= _<< _///_ // <`)= _<< <`)= _<< \\\ \\<`)= _<< \\\ \\ \\\ \\ GO AGAINST THE FLOW! \\\ \\ A Real Live Catholic in Georgia [The Anchor Bible commentary on John has an appendix that reviews the uses of both words in some detail. It comes to the conclusion that no systematic difference in meaning can be found. --clh]