Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!bu.edu!husc6!bunny!jwg1 From: jwg1@gte.com (James W. Gish) Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel Subject: Re: Eiffel for undergrads - summary(repost) Message-ID: Date: 15 Jun 90 18:08:59 GMT References: <1990Jun3.221055.15967@lth.se> Sender: jwg1@GTE.COM Distribution: comp Organization: GTE Laboratories Incorporated, Waltham, MA Lines: 40 In-reply-to: collberg@dna.lth.se's message of 3 Jun 90 22:10:55 GMT In article <1990Jun3.221055.15967@lth.se> collberg@dna.lth.se (Christian S. Collberg) writes: > > From: GPIKE%MAINE.BITNET (Gregory G. Pike) > For the record, GTE Laboratories no longer uses Eiffel as an > environment for anything, ... Sorry, but for the record, Greg hasn't worked here for two years and can't speak for the record for GTE Laboratories. In fact I HAVE used Eiffel extensively at GTE Laboratories since Greg left. Also, please note that Greg used an old version of Eiffel and many of the frustrations that he experienced have been corrected. However, I would agree that the current compiler leaves something to be desired for a teaching environment - the error messages do not give line numbers and may be difficult for novice programmers to understand. The compiler usually gives up on the first serious error - it does not do error correction. This, coupled with a slow edit/compile/link/test cycle and the absence of a source code debugger may easily frustrate students (as well as professionals!) Note, however, the reasons for the slow edit/compile/link: automatic system build facility that computes class dependencies and automatically recompiles (i.e. no make files required), and the brain-dead Unix linker that requires a full link each time instead of allowing incremental changes. ISE is fully aware of the deficiencies of the current implementation and is making efforts to correct them. Keep in mind that the language is clean, elegant, and embodies current concepts of software engineering and could be a great pedagogical tool in the right hands. The class libraries, compiler and tools may prove problematic in the hands of students, who because of their inexperience manage to put software of all kinds to an acid test. I would definitely recommend that Eiffel be taught, but I would be hesitant at this point to assign a whole semester of programming assignments with it unless you are prepared to do a modest amount of hand-holding (so what else is new with programming courses? :-) ...just my humble opinion -- Jim Gish (jgish@gte.com)