Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!chuq
From: chuq@Apple.COM (That's MR. Idiot to you)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: System 7 talk: Hierarchial Apple Menus
Message-ID: <41795@apple.Apple.COM>
Date: 9 Jun 90 16:44:57 GMT
References: <68207@cc.utah.edu>
Organization: Fictional Reality. We can write it for you wholesale
Lines: 49

TJACOBS@cc.utah.edu writes:

>Apple seems to have a definite bias against hierarchial menus and so do I for
>many things.

Hierarchical menus are the spawn of Satan. They are evil, nasty, ugly things
that are hard to control and lead to non-intuitive clutter.

There ARE times when they're useful -- usually when the alternatives
(menus that scroll off the screen on a 9" monitor) are worse. 

>It seems a simple matter to include a checkbox in the info window for folders
>to show as hierarchial menus in the Apple Menu.

NO CHECKBOXES! Ugh! Ack! Bad Interface Karma!

I think it's important for the Mac Interface Cops to keep the purity of the
interface going. On the other hand, I don't always agree with them.
Hiermenus are ugly. Sometimes they're an ugly necessity.

the new System 7 Apple menu is a place where I think they're wrong.
Hiermenus are ugly. The Apple menu shouldn't -- by default -- support them.
But by refusing to support them in any manner I think they're being both
overly strict and short-sighted. The little I've played with 7.0 my Apple
menu is already going crazy. I *need* hiermenus.

There's a way everyone can win, without checkboxes or bad interface Karma.
The Apple menu can be made to support Hiermenus *if the user chooses to use
them* -- with the default being off, since hiermenus drive naive users
crazy (and some of us non-naive users, too). 

You don't turn them on with a silly checkbox somewhere, though. You turn
them on by creating a sub-folder in the apple folder and sticking stuff in
it. The name of the sub-folder is the menu-item that roots the hierarchical
menu, and the stuff in the folder is on the menu. Then you make sure you
only allow one level of hierarchical menu to keep people honest. 

Best of both worlds -- people get hiermenus when they want them and can
avoid them if they don't. And it's not some magic cookie hidden in a CDEV
that turns it on, it's a nice, intuitive action that fits in to the current
interface.


-- 

Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   chuq@apple.com   <+>   [This is myself speaking]

Wherefore could I not pronounce 'Amen'? I had most need of blessing, and
'Amen' stuck in my throat. --Macbeth