Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!lsr
From: lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: System 7 talk: Hierarchial Apple Menus
Message-ID: <41889@apple.Apple.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 90 22:48:21 GMT
References: <68207@cc.utah.edu> <8655@goofy.Apple.COM> <13407@wpi.wpi.edu>
Organization: Future Stuff, Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 71

In article <13407@wpi.wpi.edu> macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Chris Silverberg) writes:

> has been a VERY positive response to this just based on what I've 
read....

No one ever said that user interface design should be done by popularity 
polls.  There was lots of support for a hierarchical Apple menu on 
AppleLink as well, although I heard it was booed at the Developers 
Conference.

> Do YOU favor the idea?

I don't favor adding hierarchical menus to the Apple menu.  I almost 
always cringe when I see a hierarchical menu.  I find it interesting that 
many people began their arguments in favor of hierarchical menus by saying 
"Well, I don't like hierarchical menus, but in this case..."

The current implementation is very simple to explain and understand, since 
there's a 1-1 mapping between items in the Apple Menu folder and items in 
the Apple menu.  Selecting an item from the menu is equivalent to opening 
the icon.

Adding hierarchical menus would complicate things.  First, I think people 
wanted a choice for each folder of whether its item in the Apple menu 
included a hierarchical menu of its contents.  So you need an additional 
mechanism to make this choice.

Then there was the issue of limiting the number of levels, which makes it 
harder to explain to users.  Right now the Apple menu corresponds to the 
contents of the folder.  If you add one level of hierarchical menu then 
you are partially modelling the hierarchical folder structure.

Regardless of how you organize the menu, the more items the system has to 
keep track of, the more time and space it will require.  

Some one suggested that selecting items from palette is faster than from a 
menu.  In that case, opening an icon from a Finder window (in View by Name 
mode) should be faster than choosing the same item from a hierarchical 
menu.  

You can make the folder instantly appear by selecting it from the Apple 
menu, rather than hunting for it as you have to do today.  This may take 
an additional step, but it may be just as fast, given the difficulty of 
selecting from hierarchical menus.  (If it isn't fast to do this, then 
perhaps the Finder needs to be optimized for this kind of case.)

I don't have a good rebuttal to the argument that the hierarchical Apple 
menu would just be an option for those who want it.  

For one thing, a lot of Macintoshes aren't used by a single person, so 
there's a good possibility that users will encounter it unexpectedly.

I think the same argument could be applied to any user interface feature, 
but I wouldn't want to add every feature that someone comes up with, or 
that some other program has.

It's usually a mistake to use the wrong tool for a job.  I also think it's 
a bad idea to add more and more features to a tool in the hope that it can 
handle different jobs.  The trend today is towards applications/utilities 
that do one job very well and that integrate with other applications.

As I said before, I don't think you can turn the Apple menu into the 
central control center of the Macintosh.  If there's a need for additional 
navigation features beyond what System 7 provides, then I think it's 
better to address that problem directly, rather than slap on hierarchical 
menus.
-- 
Larry Rosenstein,  Object Specialist
Apple Computer, Inc.  20525 Mariani Ave, MS 77-A  Cupertino, CA 95014
AppleLink:Rosenstein1    domain:lsr@Apple.COM
UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lsr