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From: lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: System 7 talk: Hierarchial Apple Menus
Message-ID: <8702@goofy.Apple.COM>
Date: 15 Jun 90 02:02:08 GMT
Sender: usenet@Apple.COM
Organization: Future Stuff,  Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 52
References:<68207@cc.utah.edu> <8655@goofy.Apple.COM> <13407@wpi.wpi.edu> <41889@apple.Apple.COM> <69651@cc.utah.edu> <1990Jun14.185425.640@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

In article <1990Jun14.185425.640@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> 
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes:
> The following things were also simpler:
[list omitted]

Every change involves a cost-benefit tradeoff.  Cost must take into 
account use by inexperienced as well as experienced users, development 
time & space, testing time, etc.

> IMHO, we have an exact parallel between MFS and a flat apple menu.  The
> same mistake is being made; you just can't provide users with too many

I disagree.  To the user, there seemed to be a hierarchy under MFS.  In fact 
I would argue that HFS simplified things by removing the quirks of the 
fake hierarchy.  (You could get a message about replacing a file even if it 
was 10 levels deep.)

Also, I don't think the 2 features are analogous.  You have to be able to 
reach every file from the Finder, so you need a hierarchical structure.  
(MFS vs. HFS is just an implementation detail.)  You don't have to be able 
to reach everything from the Apple menu.  

> but would cost nothing for the novice.

It's one more thing to be explained in the manual.  You would need a 
mechanism to turn it on and off (another thing to explain), since System 7 
installs the Control Panels folder in the Apple menu.

>[As for the "but a novice might use an expert's machine," argument, I 
detect
>a definite red coloration and fishy smell...]

Since there is no mechanism for users to "login" and configure the 
machine, this situation will arise.  We know that this happens all the 
time in universities, and it turns out that a lot of business users share 
their machines.  (I think there should be some way to customize the system 
for each user.)

I don't buy the argument it's OK to add any particular UI feature to the 
system, since novice users won't see it.  The Human Interface people have 
an obligation to ensure that the Mac user interface is the best one 
available.

I'm sure that someone will do an INIT to provide hierarchical menus.  It 
should be easier to do because System 7 documents more of the stuff needed 
to make this work.  

Larry Rosenstein, Apple Computer, Inc.
Object Specialist

Internet: lsr@Apple.com   UUCP: {nsc, sun}!apple!lsr
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