Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!bridge2!3comvax!tymix!hobbes!pnelson From: pnelson@hobbes.uucp (Phil Nelson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: AmigaBasic Summary: make Amiga friendly Message-ID: <3701@tymix.UUCP> Date: 4 Jul 90 04:36:36 GMT References: <1729@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> <13445@wpi.wpi.edu> <16376@smunews.UUCP> <3685@tymix.UUCP> <26400@netnews.upenn.edu> Sender: usenet@tymix.UUCP Reply-To: pnelson@hobbes.UUCP (Phil Nelson) Organization: BT Tymnet, Inc. / San Jose, CA Lines: 82 In article <26400@netnews.upenn.edu> strasser@grasp.cis.upenn.edu.UUCP (Colin Strasser) writes: |In article <3685@tymix.UUCP> pnelson@hobbes.UUCP (Phil Nelson) writes: | || If I were able to buy QuickBASIC 4.5 for the Amiga, I would have written ||more useful programs, with some encouragement, some of them probably would ||be in the public domain right now. || || Oh, but I forgot - I'm not a developer or a guru, or even a teenage ||midnight hacker - I'm just a guy trying to get some useful work out of this ||thing. Since I have neither the time or the inclination to memorize megabytes ||of arcane terms before I even begin to write code, I couldn't possibly ever ||write a useful program, right? || || Now that I think about it, the fact that I don't even know what Execbase is ||probably disqualifies me from even having an opinion. || ||right? | |That's quite a chip on your shoulder, Phil. Not really, I was just trying to make a point. I admit to overdramatizing somewhat, but I still think it is a valid point - that 'plain people' tend to feel excluded and put off by groups who require a long and difficult initiation. For a club, this may not be a bad thing, for selling computers, it is not so good. I don't mean to say that I think Amiga afficionados are worse than average in their tendancy to intimidate newcomers, just that we could be better. | |I really can't recall any "developers," "gurus," or "midnight hackers" |refusing to acknowledge quality software because it was written in BASIC. |Programmers may have strong opinions regarding their own preferences, but |I don't think the general censure you seem to feel is valid. I didn't say that it happened, I was merely trying to (over :-) dramatize my reaction to confronting AmigaBASIC, giving up on it, and then reading gratuitous flaming of BASIC here and elsewhere. I hoped that people would think about the implication for Amiga sales. I think the Amiga should live up to it's name, it should welcome newcomers. The most encouraging development along these lines is probably AmigaVision, but BASIC is tried and true, I propose that Amiga have a great BASIC and a great OOP system, just as it has the workbench and CLI. If an improvement on BASIC can be found (AREXX?, Modula-2? ??) fine, but it has to be really better, not just more 'sophisticated', 'elegant' or whatever. By better I mean easier to use to do better work. |And even if it were, what do you care? (Haven't I used this argument before |somewhere? (-: ) If you enjoy developing in BASIC, then go ahead. You |can even release your programs to the public (via the net, or BBSs, or |whatever) and see what kind of response you get. I'll bet you'd be pleas- |antly surprised. If the AmigaBasic environment turns you off, try True |BASIC. I think it's out of distribution but you might be able to get it |used. Anyway, the point is that nobody's going to say, "Let's go find |Phil and laugh at him for hacking in BASIC." At least not if your software |is any good :-). I have True BASIC, AC/BASIC, Manx C, Benchmark Modula 2 and AREXX. I have used True BASIC and AC/BASIC. I prefer AC/BASIC to True BASIC. What I want is Microsoft QuickBASIC for the Amiga. It's not about people laughing at me, it's about whether I think, up front, that it will be worth my time to invest in learning the skills necessary to accomplish something useful to me. Remember that I have to make the determination BEFORE I know the language, unless it's one I already know. When I (or rather, the prospective Amiga buyer, you don't care what I do :-) makes an assessment up front, it's going to involve a lot of subjectives, If people get the idea that Amiga is only good for hackers, they're going to stay away in droves. |Colin Strasser University of Pennsylvania |strasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Moore School of Electrical Engineering |CI$: 72447,1650 Class of '90 -- Penn's 250th year! -- Phil Nelson . uunet!pyramid!oliveb!tymix!hobbes!pnelson . Voice:408-922-7508 A desire fulfilled is sweet to the soul; but to turn away from evil is an abomination to fools. -Proverbs 13:19