Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!bryan
From: bryan@cs.utexas.edu (Bryan Bayerdorffer @ Wit's End)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Buying via "Net-Order"
Message-ID: <200@mohawk.cs.utexas.edu>
Date: 4 Jul 90 21:49:15 GMT
References: <23502@snow-white.udel.EDU>
Reply-To: bryan@cs.utexas.edu
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In article <23502@snow-white.udel.EDU> jones@uv4.eglin.af.mil (Calvin Jones, III) writes:
=-
=-First, contrary to what one might assume by reading all the Piracy 
=-netmail, I've found that there are a lot of honest people out there.  In 
=- 
	True, I've sold several things via mail over the years, but you *can*
get hosed; it happened to me.

=-2.  My check bounces after the equipment is sent to me.  Now, the 
=-individual has every right to have me arrested for uttering a forged 
=-instrument, or something like that.  Since I don't really want to spend 
=-any significant part of my time in court, I do try to make sure that 
=-checks I write are covered.  Of course, the individual selling the 
=-equipment could have waited until the check cleared to make certain that 
=-he would get paid.
=- 
	Well, as I found out, the danger of a lawsuit won't keep a determined
miscreant from ripping you off.  Consider this:  In early 1988 I took advantage
of the A1000 "trade in" deal that allowed me to keep the 1000 and get an A2000
for $1000.  Thereupon I offered my A1000 (plus peripherals) for sale on the net
at $950, and got a couple of offers.  I took the first one and arranged
shipment.  The buyer was agreeable to paying COD, but I, being cheap and
trusting, told him just to send a check so that I'd save the COD charges.  I
received the check two weeks before the agreed shipping date.

	Here's where I was even more stupid.  Instead of making the effort to
go to the bank right away and depositing the check, I just sat on it.  My
reasoning?  He knows I have two weeks to clear the check, it must be good
right?  In my defense I have to say that it never occurred to me that someone
would willfully withold payment for merchandise that was acceptable.

	Well, that's what happened.  To make a VERY long story short, after
nine months of asking, insisting, and finally demanding either my money or my
computer back, I filed a small claims action against the buyer in his home
state of Rhode Island.  The defendant did not contest, so I got a judgement for
$950 (but *not* for my expenses in trying to recover).  In most small claims
it's up to the plaintiff to collect, so I called up the defendant's workplace,
only to find out that he had conveniently just moved to Norfolk, VA.

	Conclusions:

1. Pursuing something like this as a criminal matter won't get you far.  For
$950, the cops aren't too interested.

2. If you get a civil judgement, it can still take a LONG time (years) to
collect.

	I could have started the process all over again in Virginia, but I just
didn't have the time to track the scumbag down, and it had already cost me a
bunch of money anyway.  It would be more difficult to find---I won't mention
names...oh what the hell, this is all factual, so I will---Richard Brooks, who
used to work for RayServ in Newport, RI, later for Radio Shack in Newport, and
was apparently last to be found working for Raytheon in either Norfolk or
Chesapeake, VA.

=-An alternative is to have the sender send the stuff UPS COD and require 
=-that UPS accept only CASH or a CASHIERS check.  This would leave the 
=-buyer with no recourse unless he had a letter describing what was to be 
=-sent before he accepted delivery.
=-

	You can damn sure that I won't be carrying out any more check
transactions with people that aren't personally known to me.

	The best solution is to use some reputable transfer agent.  The seller
can ship the equipment to some randomly chosen lawyer close to the buyer.  The
buyer then brings a certified check to the lawyers offices, checks out the
equipment, and exchanges check for equipment if it proves satisfactory.  Lawyer
then forwards either check or rejected equipment to seller.  Most attorneys
will probably charge $50 to $100 for this, but it's advisable for large
transactions.  There are others that can act as disinterested transfer agents.


	If anyone knows the whereabouts of one Richard A. Brooks, I'd
appreciate hearing fom you.