Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!aplcen!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!mcnc!ncsuvx!news
From: willis@ecoult.ncsu.edu (Bill Willis)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Motif -> Open Look look & feel
Keywords: motif open look openlook
Message-ID: <1990Jun29.033504.5003@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>
Date: 29 Jun 90 03:35:04 GMT
References: <2986@osc.COM> <1990Jun28.111050.17353@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> <138082@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>
Sender: news@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: willis@ecoult.ncsu.edu (Bill Willis)
Lines: 88


I didn't mean to start something, but here goes...

In article <138082@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>, patl@bodacia.Eng.Sun.COM (Pat
Lashley) writes:

> 
> 1) Count the number of applications actually shipping.  OpenLook wins
>    by almost 2:1.  Count the number of SunView applications total.
>    Easily the second most widely used look and feel in the world.
>    Think about how easy most of them are to port using xview....

I was counting X applications only and counting those that I know of
under development. I do not believe that the 2:1 number holds. For
another measure, and remember we need to pick what will be delivering
next fall instead of now, count the number of time Motif is mentioned in
your favorite, non-biased trade journal and count the time OpenLook is
mentioned. This may seem trivial, but I think it represents something.

> 
> 2) The XView OpenLook toolkit source is freely-redistributable; and
>    included with the X11R4 source; you have to pay for Motif.  Not
>    just to develop using it, but a per-customer right-to use.  I'm
>    not about to spend the bucks for a Motif developer's licence for
>    my Amiga at home when I will be able to get the OpenLook toolkits
>    with X11.

I pay nothing for Motif (yes it is imbedded in the workstation price)
unless I want
source. The libraries come with most of the workstations that I order and it is
supported by the vendor. I do not HAVE to get R4 or build it or mess
with anything. Now,
I know that Motif isn't very mature yet. In fact, it leaks like a sieve
in many cases,
but, it will improve, and we have applications running under Motif
running on 7 
platforms now and we only had to build it ourselves for the Sun systems.

> 
> 3) Two OpenLook toolkits are provided with the SysV R.4 distribution and
>    in the Sun OpenWindows package.  (OpenWindows is available to Sun
>    users for a nominal media charge.  The right-to-use is included in
>    your SunOS licence.)

Again, Motif toolkits are provided with nearly everything we are
interested in. If it
isn't provided now, it soon will be, or it is available for the asking.
DG, Digital,
HP/Apollo, IBM, Solbourne, SCO, etc.... The only significant player
missing is Sun.

> 
> 4) OpenLook defines a 2D look which works much better on monochrome and
>    low-res displays.  (Have you ever seen Motif on monochrome?  Fuzzy
>    looking isn't it...)

We have defined monochrome resources which yield a perfectly acceptable
appearance
for Motif....

> 
> 5) OpenLook has a smoother, more-consistant user interface.  (Ok, this one
>    borders on opinion instead of pure fact. :-)

It doesn't border on opinion, it clearly is an opinion :-)

BTW, many of the statements that I make here are also opinions. But,
they come from a
lot of experience in this market place. I will not argue technical
superiority of
either toolkit. We have used both and found significant problems with
both. But from the
marketplace and recent announcements, the race nearly is over and the
leader is clear.
I hear that UI is close to endorsing Motif as a toolkit. As I understand
it they only
have to see that it works under SysV R.4. It will...

I would not be surprised to see many major customers requiring vendor supplied
Motif libraries in the near future.

Bill Willis, Director                 willis@ecovsa.ncsu.edu
Engineering Computer Operations       willis%ecovsa@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu
Box 7901, School of Engineering
North Carolina State University
(919) 737-2458

               We have met the enemy, and they are us --- Pogo