Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!att!cbnews!military From: terryr@ogicse.ogc.edu (Terry Rooker) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Ship survivability (USS Midway) Message-ID: <1990Jun28.025938.19540@cbnews.att.com> Date: 28 Jun 90 02:59:38 GMT References: <1990Jun24.233636.24292@cbnews.att.com> <1990Jun27.021023.1370@cbnews.att.com> Sender: military@cbnews.att.com (William B. Thacker) Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR Lines: 63 Approved: military@att.att.com From: terryr@ogicse.ogc.edu (Terry Rooker) In article <1990Jun27.021023.1370@cbnews.att.com> willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner, OIR) writes: > >In brief, all four carriers succumbed to uncontrollable fires after >being hit by typically three or four bombs from dive bombers. >Admittedly three of the four carriers were caught while refueling and >rearming aircraft, but carriers ought to be designed to conduct those >operations in combat without gross hazards. And Hiryu caught fire and >was sunk after being hit by four bombs in no special circumstances. > Refueling and rearming is a bad time, but for the Japanese it was even worse. They were in the process of reloading anti-shipping weapons after those weapons had been removed. In their haste the weapons, both going on and those going off the planes were not stowed, but simply left laying on the hangar deck. >By contrast, the USS Yorktown was hit by three (or four? Rats! I left >the book at home.) bombs, including one down the funnel, and was ready >to launch planes again within two hours! Then she was hit by two >torpedoes (from aircraft), which wiped out all power and gave her a 26 >degree list. She was abandoned but did not sink. Next morning she was >taken under tow and probably would have made it back to Pearl Harbor >but for two submarine-delivered torpedoes, which finally sank her. At >no point was the ship endangered by fire. > There is an assumption here that weapon detonation automatically causes a fire. I would have to re-read references, but it is conceiveable that no major fires were started. [stuff about Midway fire] > >Certainly correct. What bothers me is not so much that a fire occurred >but rather that it (reportedly) took 10-12 hours to put it out. And >apparently the fire was in a storage area, not an ammunition or fuel >compartment. This sounds a lot more like Hiryu's experience than like >Yorktown's. Was the delay in putting out the fire the result of bad >luck? Or peacetime careless practices? Or is there a fundamental >problem? Or have the facts been reported incorrectly? I realize it >may take some time to know for sure, but I would be glad if people >kept these questions in mind and let us all know what they find out. Actually the fire would have probably been out sooner in an ammo or fuel compartment. Most of those spaces have installed firefighting equipment, such as sprinklers and smothering systems. Storerooms usually don't. In addition a storeroom is usually densely packed with cases and cartons. I can't imagine a much worse location for a fire. 10 hours still seems long, but then I don't know if that is the time to extinguish, or includes the cleaning up and looking for smouldering embers. Firefighting on board a ship is a difficult and challenging evolution. It is a lot harder than it might seem at first. The shipboard compartments are small, and usually have limited access. If access is only through a scuttle, then access is both limited, and difficult. You basically have to go in the compartment to fight the fire. You can't simply knock holes in the roof and walls like in a house fire. In the meantime the metal of the ship is radiating the heat of the fire so precautions are required in the adjacent compartments. --