Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jhpb@granjon.garage.att.com Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: 'Veneration of the 'Saints'' Message-ID: Date: 27 Jun 90 04:55:30 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Labs (Liberty Corner) Lines: 31 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu This is the last thing I will post on this, because, as Cindy said, this is about wound down. Forget "veneration", please, that's not part of what was being discussed. Praying "to" saints is misleading terminology and should be forgotten completely. Talk about "asking saints for prayers" instead, because that's all that is being done. St. Paul asks people to pray for him, right in the NT. The only difference between that and the Catholic practice is that the people Catholics are asking to pray for them happen to be dead and in Heaven. There is nothing here opposed to the one mediatorship of Christ; saints are not asked to do anything that only God can do, they're asked to obtain things from God by praying for us. The practice of asking Saints for prayers is a necessary one as much as asking other people to pray for us is necessary. No more, no less. If it's useless to ask others for prayers, St. Paul wouldn't do it. If you object that the saints cannot hear us or don't care, then consider the passages dealing with the good and bad angels. The Devil certainly knows what goes on down here, why not the good angels? Our Lord talks about the children's angels, and about the joy of the angels when a sinner does penance. Over and out, Joe Buehler