Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: 'Veneration of the 'Saints'' Message-ID: Date: 27 Jun 90 05:11:24 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK. Lines: 45 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu clh writes: >Christian life. However in my conversations with friends who grew up >in the Catholic Church, I find that most of them believe that the >invocation of saints had reached the point of being superstitious. >The saints were not used as fellow Christians, appreciation of which >deepened their prayer lives. Rather they were used as charms to help >find lost things, protect against winter colds, etc. Discussing Catholicism in these terms is rather like discussing Protestantism in terms of the excesses of the tele-evangelists. I very much doubt you would find ANY modern thinking Catholic who invoked the saints in these ways, though you would find plenty on the fringes of the church who would. Certainly, such invocation of the saints plays NO part in the official worship of the church. The problem with "friends who grew up as Catholics" is that most of them were never told what Catholicism is all about. This is a big problem with the Catholic Church - it tends to believe that anyone who attended a few Catholic services as a child knows all about Catholicism. Another problem is that these days many Catholics are so ecumenical that they are too embarrassed to point out what distinguishes Catholicism from Protestantism. I have many friends who "grew up as Catholics" whose "knowledge of Catholicism" actually comes from the standard prejudiced image of the Church which is commonly found in the media in Britain and the USA. Matthew Huntbach [One needs to be neither too much or too little influenced by abuses. I certainly do not blame you for what happens among the ignorant. Yet it is legitimate to try to set things up to minimize the likelihood of abuse. If a practice is not esential to the Gospel, and if it tends to be misunderstood and lead to superstition, it is reasonable for a church to choose to give it up. This is an area in which I believe people need to act in mutual respect. I do not condemn you for continuing to follow your practices and attempting to do so in a pure form. I'm simply asking you to understand that it might seem to others that it was wiser to give up the practices completely. There are others who carry this further than I, including banning organs from church etc. I do not agree with this, but I understand and respect their commitment. --clh]