Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dlogics!dsa From: dsa@dlogics.COM (David Angulo) Newsgroups: comp.ai Subject: Re: Artificial vs. ''real'' intelligence Summary: Measurement, et. al. Message-ID: <601@dlogics.COM> Date: 11 Jul 90 19:17:49 GMT References: <1990Jul2.182411.4441@king.mcs.drexel.edu> <5734@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> <5781@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> Organization: Datalogics Inc., Chicago Lines: 46 In article <5781@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU>, ins_atge@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Thomas G Edwards) writes: > OK, let's replace "measuring a QM function" (which I accept is impossible) > with measuring an aspect of an object (such as velocity or position). Which is really pointless. Why would you want to measure its momentum if you have no idea where in the universe it is (that is, the particle would exist as a pure wave function, sort of). > > Anyway, for QM phenomena to have some relevance to real > neural system computation, there must be "measurement" of one > aspect of the QM phenomena. > Those who argue that neural systems are based on QM phenoment do not argue this way, I believe. I don't want to talk to them. > I still state that I see no reason why people feel that > there are some kinds of QM phenomena being measured in the brain > which gives real neural systems intelligence which cannot be > replicated by artificial systems. > Well, I think I do not like your use of the word "measure" because the brain is not doing any "measurements;" however, I don't see how the phenomenon can be made use by brain material any differently than artificial systems would. > We also see above that Dave points out that this measurement > of one aspect of QM phenomena neccessarily effects other > aspects of the QM phenomena. I don't see how this > validates or invalidates the claim of QM based intelligence (maybe Dave > can point that out). > I don't either. I basically agree with your premise. I just don't want us to be picked on by incorrect use of QM. I believe (as you do) that Penrose, et. al. are using QM incorrectly. -- David S. Angulo (312) 266-3134 Datalogics Internet: dsa@dlogics.com 441 W. Huron UUCP: ..!uunet!dlogics!dsa Chicago, Il. 60610 FAX: (312) 266-4473