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From: awessels@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: "Innovative software like Hypercard" [sic]
Message-ID: <33521@ut-emx.UUCP>
Date: 7 Jul 90 21:24:29 GMT
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Reply-To: awessels@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels)
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Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas
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In article <33519@ut-emx.UUCP> eggplant@walt.cc.utexas.edu (johan van Zanten) writes:

>  Mr Forbes writes:
>"If development costs for Hypercard are driving up the costs of making a Mac,
>then I think we can safely ax this project.  Most users could live without
>Hypercard and be richer as a result."

>	I strongly disagree.  One of the foundations Apple built its current
>success upon was the Educational market.  Currently, Apple is working very hard
>to produce a low cost, color Macintosh as soon as possible (firing a high exec) 
But, the point Mr. Forbes was making was that if the cost of HyperCard
development is adding to the cost of the Mac, and in so doing reducing the
chances that educational institutions can buy them, that HyperCard should be
dumped.  There are already alternative HyperCard-like environments (as there
were before HyperCard - at least as far as the educational market is concerned).

>because of the educational demand.  They have (reportedly) lost $500 million
>in sales to IBM and IBM-compatibles, and it hurts.

Uh, I question those figures.  If Apple isn't really competing in a market,
how could it lose money there.  Apple doesn't price its computers for the
educational market, and even if it di monochome doesn't cut it there 
anymore.

>	However, Macs will not be able to "infiltrate" the educational world if
>they do not have some sort of easy-to-learn programming environment, where 
>teachers and students just beginning to use computers, can write sometimes-
>lenghty and interesting programs, tailored to their students' needs.

Such environments already exist.  SuperCard, Plus, and the Course Builder 
courseware environments are here.  HyperCard has done its job of popularizing
that type of software.

>	I'm not shooting my mouth off, here.  I work at the University of Texas'
>College of Education Learning Resources Center.  I help students in the 
>Computer Literacy classes use the Apple //e's to program in BASIC because Macs
>are (at the moment) to expensive to use.  Speaking from about 7 years of exper-
>ience in BASIC, C, Pascal and HyperCard programming, i would recommend Hyper-
>Card for anyone who wants to produce their own "program" but doesn't have the
>time or orientation to learn a "real" higher language.

The bottom line is getting "boxes" into the classroom.  Clones are making
big inroads because the price per box is low, NOT because of the existence
of a HyperCard-like program.  If Apple would just concentrate on getting a
cheap, color box with Apple II software capability, they could compete at a
reasonable level with clones (note that IBM, to my knowledge, is not a real
competitor).

The basic problem with Apple is that it has gone the way of other megalithic
corporations and lost its ability to get to market innovative products.

>	If Apple "axes" HyperCard, they lose the Educational market they need
>to survive.  You cannot expect teachers to use MS Word, Excel or other
>such "useful" programs as teaching aids in a 3rd grade classroom.  You need 
>a programmable "tour" or "display" -type engine, which can use graphics and
>sound to involve students.

While this is true of a third grade classroom, it isn't necessarily so for
higher grades.  AppleWorks is a pretty popular teaching aid for some subject
matter.  Software isn't going to make or break Apple's ability to compete
in the educational market, a low cost color box will.  Apple needs to do this 
as quickly as possible, because those clones are marching on in.  

Our department here at The University of Texas markets software for the 
educational market.  Teachers looking for software are looking for IBM software.
The Apple II is fading from consideration for new purchases.

It will be sad if, years from now, Apple's epitaph is "we made IBM use a GUI".

- Allen