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From: gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.hypercard
Subject: Re: "Innovative software like Hypercard" [sic]
Message-ID: <1990Jul7.225429.22821@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: 7 Jul 90 21:40:30 GMT
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Organization: University of Chicago Graduate School of Business
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In article <33521@ut-emx.UUCP>, awessels@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes...
 
>In article <33519@ut-emx.UUCP> eggplant@walt.cc.utexas.edu (johan van Zanten) writes:
> 
>>  Mr Forbes writes:
>>"If development costs for Hypercard are driving up the costs of making a Mac,
>>then I think we can safely ax this project.  Most users could live without
>>Hypercard and be richer as a result."
> 
>>	I strongly disagree.  One of the foundations Apple built its current
>>success upon was the Educational market.  Currently, Apple is working very hard
>>to produce a low cost, color Macintosh as soon as possible (firing a high exec) 
>But, the point Mr. Forbes was making was that if the cost of HyperCard
>development is adding to the cost of the Mac, and in so doing reducing the
>chances that educational institutions can buy them, that HyperCard should be
>dumped.  There are already alternative HyperCard-like environments (as there
>were before HyperCard - at least as far as the educational market is concerned).
> 
>>because of the educational demand.  They have (reportedly) lost $500 million
>>in sales to IBM and IBM-compatibles, and it hurts.
> 
>Uh, I question those figures.  If Apple isn't really competing in a market,
>how could it lose money there.  Apple doesn't price its computers for the
>educational market, and even if it di monochome doesn't cut it there 
>anymore.


"Apple doesn't price its computers for the educational market"?  Maybe, if you
buy retail.  But at many universities and community colleges you can get Macs
for less than 50% of retail.  A Plus for <$700, for instance.


> 
>>	However, Macs will not be able to "infiltrate" the educational world if
>>they do not have some sort of easy-to-learn programming environment, where 
>>teachers and students just beginning to use computers, can write sometimes-
>>lenghty and interesting programs, tailored to their students' needs.
> 
>Such environments already exist.  SuperCard, Plus, and the Course Builder 
>courseware environments are here.  HyperCard has done its job of popularizing
>that type of software.

Sheesh, some people are never satisfied.  What HyperCard does is add value to
the system you've purchased.  It does this in two ways.  First, it's free, and
it's a good program.  SuperCard, et al., are not free.  Second, it's a
standard, and everybody who has a Mac has HyperCard.  This allows everyone who
has a Mac to run any stack, and anyone who has a Mac to write -- with relative
ease -- a fairly sophisticated program with graphics, etc. which every other
member of the Mac community can enjoy.

[...]
> 
>The basic problem with Apple is that it has gone the way of other megalithic
>corporations and lost its ability to get to market innovative products.

Nonsense.  BTW, who do you see out there marketing "innovative" products. 
Clone makers?

The original point of this thread -- which I think has been lost -- is that
Apple cannot compete on price with clone makers, since Apple has a large R&D
budget to support.  This is true, whether you like it or not.  Who do you think
is paying for System 7, the NEA?  No, we are.  (Of course, I still think Macs
could be priced somewhat lower, but that's a flame for a different time. :->). 
It is doubtful that HyperCard itself adds much to that R&D cost, since the
original HyperCard was developed by a team of fewer than 10 people (mainly Bill
Atkinson).  As for whether HyperCard has value: look at the real world.  Of
course it does.

Robert

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= gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu * generic disclaimer: * "It's more fun to =
=            		         * all my opinions are *  compute"         =
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