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From: ejp@icd.ab.com (Ed Prochak)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract,comp.edu
Subject: Group projects
Summary: some places do it (was Re: Qualified? or Dreaming? )
Message-ID: <1522@abvax.UUCP>
Date: 16 Jul 90 15:21:44 GMT
References: <1990Jul8.063302.4076@xavax.com> <2616@igloo.scum.com> <1990Jul11.233006.17884@nmt.edu> <18454@rpp386.cactus.org>
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Reply-To: ejp@icd.ab.com (Ed Prochak)
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Industrial Computer Division
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In article <18454@rpp386.cactus.org>, jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F.
Haugh II) writes:
> In article <1990Jul11.233006.17884@nmt.edu> john@nmt.edu (John
Shipman) writes:
> >At New Mexico Tech, nobody gets a BS in CS without going
> >through both the compiler class and the OS class; it's been
> >this way for twenty years.  And these aren't just lecture
> >classes, either.  Every student implements a whole compiler
> >and a whole operating system from scratch, working in a team
> >with one or two other students.
> 
> At The University of New Orleans everyone was required to take
> a theory course in languages, operating systems and so on, but
> there were few, if any, courses where students were required
> to actually write useful code.  A suggestion to one of my
> professors to implement a PL/1 compiler as a project for a
> special studies course was met with incredible disinterest.
> 
> Many universities that I am aware of take a dim view at students
> working together on large projects.  The fear being that the
> students would cheat or slack off.  The only course I had which
> produced something "useful" was an advanced O/S course taught
> by Jim "Nothead" Thomas.  The course was excellent from a learning
> experience, but a dismal failure as the O/S we wrote refused to
> do much of anything.  Jim Thomas can be found someplace in New
> Mexico [ UNM I think ... ] working on Yet Another Degree.
> -- 
> John F. Haugh II              UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
> Ma Bell: (512) 832-8832            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
>                               Proud Pilot of RS/6000 Serial #1472

At the University of Lowell, MA, the OS and Compiler courses
are required core courses. The OS instructor did not require
groups to work together, but he allowed it. (As it turned out
my partner dropped the course, so I had to go it alone.) I
also took the digital design Lab course which required project
teams. We have a three person team and did very well in the course
primarily, I think, because we did good team management. We worked
well together, even though in the end not all of our hardware
was finished (though everything that was finished worked).

BTW, this was all for a Master's degree in Electrical Engineering
with a concentration in Computer Engineering (Software option).
Overall, it was a very good school, with some excellent evening
instructors, and I think the program is getting even better.

I really don't see why there is a problem in software courses
with team projects. If there are also exams and other grading
sourses within the same course (e.g. presentations, verbal exams),
then at project completion, the instructor should have some idea
of the ability of each student and how each may have contributed.
In the Lab course, we had regular "status" meetings with the
instructor where we described what we did so far, demonstrate it
if possible, and get quizzed on various aspects. The OS course had
midterm and final exams, and (if I recall correctly) the project
teams were asked to do a little more than the single person teams.
All reasonable requirements, I think.

As an undergraduate in Physics labs, we often had to work with
at least one partner. Other lab courses were that way too. Why
not software?? (NOTE: other posters have pointed out schools with
team project related courses in software. So the issue is why
haven't the other curriculum's caught up??)





(Pardon the inconvenience during our remodelling of the signature file)
Edward J. Prochak        (216)646-4663         I think. 
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Allen-Bradley Industrial Computer Div.       Therefore, I AM!
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